katrina.hughes Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hi all, I am interested in finding out about the offspring of non-virgin females. Let's say I've bred a non-virgin female with one of my male guppies - what are the odds of her using the more recent sperm of my male compared to some of the older, previous 'flings' she has had? I also want to know how it works... does the female store 'packets' of each males sperm and use them at will or is it all mixed up in one big soup and really ends up as a 'pick n mix' on what offspring you get? :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlogged Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I've just done this, of the males only one out of 6 has ended up looking like the male, and both the male and female are yellow snakeskin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 What a nuisance! So you reckon it's a bit of a 'pick n mix' then? :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 It really doesn't matter if its not line bred fish, the female will use the freshest packet available, often you may notice after a female has dropped the male will be extra persistent as this is the time to fertilize for the next batch, this can also cause extra stress. If you have males and females you will get plenty of baby's of mixed and matched traits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Guppies give throw backs bigtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURN Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 How many strains have your pair of guppy got in them to start with ? Were all their mothers the best sports in the districts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Well, you see, I have this particular male that I want to breed but currently I can't get the blonde females that I'm after... so in the meantime I have bred him with some mutts from the local petstore just to see what comes out... so was just curious as to what percentage of the offspring will be his? :dunno: Also how long before the female becomes 'pure' (or as close to pure as possible) again? :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURN Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Well, you see, I have this particular male that I want to breed but currently I can't get the blonde females that I'm after... so in the meantime I have bred him with some mutts from the local petstore just to see what comes out... so was just curious as to what percentage of the offspring will be his? :dunno: Also how long before the female becomes 'pure' (or as close to pure as possible) again? :thup: They might all be his. The mother might throw 3 different strains and the father might also so you might end up with 6 different type mongrels and what ever their gelling produces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hmmm... interesting, so how long before a female becomes a virgin again? (In the sense that she does not have any stored sperm left...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Well that's the interesting part! and I'm glad you asked katrina! Originally it was thought that female live bearer's as a general rule could release up to 4 (even 5) sets of fry from one fertilization. since i first started learning about livebearers this was the general information available but since then i have read a number of articles that suggest new information. Now it seems, it comes down to a variety of things. Firstly and obviously: tank conditions, this includes parameters and temperatures (higher temperature = less viable sperm over time, lower temps = higher chance of multiple insemination's, however higher temps = shorter gestation periods and larger numbers of fry, where as colder = longer life spans but also longer gestation periods and fewer fry but more sizable on release, the larger amounts of fry holding, the smaller they are when released) Specie of livebearer (some are more prolific than others, in personal experiments i have done i have had multiple outcomes, Leopard fish for example only ever released one batch from one insemination, but they breed in very small numbers at a time and are coldwater livebearers. Ive only ever had one fat female guppy separated, release 3 batches of separate fry (all others have been 2 batches) before stopping becoming gravid, what was interesting is that the first load was just over 60 fry, the second was around 50 but with A higher number of underdeveloped fry that died before birth and the third was 12 viable fry with around 20 stillborn) this suggests a form of deterioration of the packets over time that i would be so bold to say most likely is a trait shared across all livebearers, BASICALLY the fresher the sperm the better. I did other tests with mollies and got 2 batches before no longer gravid with no discernible differences between the batches and similar with swords and platys (with a slight drop in fry numbers on the second drops, never more than two batches before needing re fertilization, bar the guppy this was always something that interested me. type and potency of the male that fertilized is also a big factor, here in NZ i have come across more and more story's of nice guppys/livebearers that are completely infertile, this could also have had a bearing on the tests that i did when i had my fishroom. As you may find that fish overseas have a higher fertility rate/re insemination rate, It would be interesting for me to hear from a hobbyist overseas who i could cross reference these findings with to establish commonality if any? as originally i thought it may have just been my fish until i read an article that suggested livebearers actually couldn't re inseminate, well this article was obviously proved wrong. But it did suggest that livebearers could not re inseminate as many times as originally thought. also obviously availability of varied high quality foods, this has a direct relation to the health of your fish, amount of fry produced, quality of off spring, life expectancy and i would dare to say has some kind of bearing on a female livebearers ability to re fertilize herself. All in all they are amazing fish and i don't feel get the due's they deserve. So to finally answer your question katrina, if your tank is at 26c and there are no other males in the tank, regular water changes and plenty of good foods, and suggesting that the above may have some relevance to your particular fish, 8-10 weeks most likely I would love to hear from people who have had different experiences! hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 That is brilliantly in-depth, thanks heaps! Yes, I am also interested to hear other peoples experiences on the matter, NZ's guppy gene pool seems to be quite limited... not much line breeding from what I can see either. Really want to get my pink line going but finding it hard to get some albino females... blondes will have to do for the moment. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I'm having the same issue, there's not enough nice females available, particularly albino :roll: Just got back from animates, picked up a nice pink, black eye female, she'll have to do I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURN Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Their was a big advertisement on the private selling site hear about the Waikato table sales and what was getting put up for sale and much more. You ladies might have found just what you were looking for their. Their are so many strains in NZ of guppy you just got to have the tanks to breed them. If each of your Mongrel females throw 3 different strains to the male that throws 3 of his own then theirs 6 strains to work with +. You will need a min of 3 tanks 600X300X300 tanks per each strain to start with. Fish are Childs play to breed pure. So you should have most of the 6 strains coming out near pure within 12 months etc. Quality is as good as your own eyes. Most of the new imports guppy are throwing 2- 3 ways in a lot of the strains. So if you want them pure pure it is not hard. KIDDIES PLAY you could call it. :sage: Hey may be them 6 strains that your guppy are throwing are the 6 most endangered strains in the whole world. You haven't thrown them to the big fish to eat. Have you. :nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Ooooh, Animates you say? Botany one? VERY keen to get some pink females... even black eyed ones will do... did they have many? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeap, Botany, they have a fair few It's hard to see under their lighting so go for the ones that look clear. They have a nice pinky purple sheen so hopefully will have some nice babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Lovely! Will check out this weekend :-) Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 My only albino female had 12 fry today :happy1: So thrilled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Ohhhhh! So jealous! Are all the fry albinos? I have an expectant mother... but it's so frustrating not knowing when she's gonna drop! Ahhh - even done my large water change today so fingers crossed we get some action soon :happy2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Yup, all albino snakeskin :happy2: I did a 50% water change in the evening before and turned out the lights. She started dropping about 10am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 The albino gene in that strain is pretty much fixed, so 100% should be albino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Yup, they're so tiny and cute! I've counted 10 now so I think I counted a few twice before. Still, pretty thrilled with 10! :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrina.hughes Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Sooo lucky! Man, my girl still hasn't dropped... even after my large water change! I swear she's keeping them in on purpose just to make me wait... feel like squeezing her! Grrrr... :facepalm: Oh well, guess I just have to be patient aye. Do albino guppies ever pop up in the pet shops - namely animates botany or hollywood mt roskill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURN Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Sooo lucky! Man, my girl still hasn't dropped... even after my large water change! I swear she's keeping them in on purpose just to make me wait... feel like squeezing her! Grrrr... :facepalm: Oh well, guess I just have to be patient aye. Do albino guppies ever pop up in the pet shops - namely animates botany or hollywood mt roskill? Always get a few Albinos at Bird Barn Henderson and also Aquaworld Target Road Glenfield. Usually only $5-$8-each just normal guppy price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I know what you mean! I had to wait 8 weeks for mine to drop Not that I have seen, but I don't get out to HFF much. I might ask the guy at animates if he can try get some in, he's pretty good with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter_crazy Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 My girl from animates is dropping now, started right in the middle of a water change :happy2: The babies are fluro purple Very cool, might have to go down and get a couple more! Anyone know what strain has purple fry? Anyway, sorry for taking over your thread :smot: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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