Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm trying to find an explanation as to why the albinos i have been breeding have deformed backs. Can this possibly be bred out of them, or am I wasting my time? This is one of the better looking frogs. ps that frog just died mysteriously. So I thought id have a look. Was nothing abnormal, to my eye, other than the bone. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky2 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 all i can say is all albino n lutino herps iv kept over the years have been geneticlly weak..compared to there bretheren! my gut tells me if somthings missing ,then somthings missing..... maby would be a good time for the prof to come foward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky2 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 p.s it also seems to be missing many important life giving organs....and skin ...l. :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky2 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 p.s it also seems to be missing many important life giving organs....and skin ...l. :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yep. I have even tried raising them under sunlight. They hatch ok, but 99% develop bent spines prior to morphing. Noticed this in the beginning when bred normal male frog to my albino. about 20% of progony (splits) developed the bends. And when breeding split back to albino, im not sure if any look 100% right. I thought it maybe something I was doing wrong (food/environment etc). So have bred and raised normal bell frogs and ewingii, and less than 5% deformed with bells and only ever seen one bent ewingii. Tried various foods and keep getting the same result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 A large commercial breeder (overseas) of L. aurea is also having similar problems with the standard green aurea stock they have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 can someone please edit out the double ups of the above pic. little tu meke eh this is the same frog. I expected to see some sort of growth on the bone. Other than the bone being bent they're surprisingly healthy. Nothing like the green machines but still strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 too many variables you will have to do some research. ie more controlled breeding to determine if environmental or genetic major stress happens in the body when they morph have you tried more calcium in the taddies diet or water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 In a previous life I had 9 albinos raised from tadpoles. 6 were healthy females, One was a healthy male, one was a runty female and the last looked like the hunchback of Notre Dame. I assumed the last was one I had pulled from the mouth of a sibling but in fact it may have been genetic. Bred albino to albino and only got about 6 tadpoles, all but one were too weak to get out of the jelly and the other lived about 2 weeks. Might be a good idea to switch to leucistics on trademe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 out of my 4 i raised from morphs. -one had a bent jaw and died 6 months in (dont know why) -2 are health males -and a runt that looks like it has got a bit of a hunch back it only 4cm after 2 years but all of them seem to lack the interest in food and i fine it hard to feed them. the only up side is that man the two can crock had to move them out of the lounge because no body could sleep lol. bent jaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 tried more calcium in the frogs diet. but haven't tried on tadpoles. I still have two albino tadpoles from a spawn last year :-? they actually look ok, but are just taking forever to morph. The leuc on tm (looks albino). When I bred a normal male frog to an albino. all eggs were white. would have suspected the same with the frog on tm. Not sure I believe they have been bred. The seller didnt even know what frog species they have. :roll: Reports of the other changing back to green. no proof of breeding. Not worth it. + the back of the leuc looks suss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have green frogs from the same batch as what the albinos came from. The % of greens were no where near as bent as the albino's. They may or may not be split. May try add them to the mix at some stage if still in the game when they get to size. Any luck breeding them Jason? Have you got a female? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 my only change of a female is the runt, but dont think i will ever bother to breed that, the genetics dont look to flash anyway without throwing that into the mix. ive still got the 4 splits i got from you too. might put the albinos over the normal females ive got outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 TM ones look a lot paler that mine but is not a very good photo and the eyes do look normal. but MAF turned the other one back to normal (witch i don't believe). and that makes me think that it would be had to find two at the same time on the side of the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Normal females out side... are they split? If not I can give you a couple of adult female splits if you want to try them ... Would be interesting to put your male over them. As ive only had normal male and males split for albino do the deed with albino females. Never an albino male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 TM ones look a lot paler that mine but is not a very good photo and the eyes do look normal. but MAF turned the other one back to normal (witch i don't believe). and that makes me think that it would be had to find two at the same time on the side of the road. She looks very similar to a female I purchased off tm last year ($91 8) ). photos where blury, seller said no red eyes. I got it sent to me, was a skinny runt and sure enough it had red eyes. Is pale like the above, she's a beautiful looking frog now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 they are not splits but i was struggling to get them to spawn inside i had uv lighting and a rain system. the males were crocking and riding the females for days at a time but no eggs so at the end of the season i put them all outside into a diy planted enclosure. would be keen to give the splits ago. didnt you get a albino male off TM?? thought i remenber seeing photo of its pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 She looks very similar to a female I purchased off tm last year ($91 8) ). photos where blury, seller said no red eyes. I got it sent to me, was a skinny runt and sure enough it had red eyes. Is pale like the above, she's a beautiful looking frog now. thought that that one was albino lol i was the $90 bid lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 True that lol. probably would of been better going to you :oops: Nope only ever got that one off tm. Breeding a split to her should be interesting. otherwise may have to start again with normal male frogs :-? They can be tricky to breed. Very easy to get croaking and even amplexing, but if the females arnt ready they just wont lay. Brumating helps but Im not sure it is necessary. So does rain, LOTS of food, temps, water parameters, noises, maybe even air pressure? and so on. Sometimes they just breed, like when i added normal males to my albinos, they laid eggs the next day, other times they do everything but lay eggs. Does get frustrating eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Well food is not a problem lol more locusts than i know what to do with. i think my problem was not enough light even with uv tube and normal bulb it was still darker than outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 :dunno: but you probably don't want too much light on albinos. may be ok though, but keep an eye on them. NZ sun is intense. Even indoors the frogs still seem to know when it is raining outdoors. :nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc254 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Could be natural selection at work? you cant really breed this out, but improve it by out crossing it with more variation. You need to either get your hands on Wild stock or try your best to out cross as far as possible then cross them back in. Its a shame that you cant import more but guess there is to much risk with disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz1833 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 jc did you work at the auckland zoo??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 :dunno: but you probably don't want too much light on albinos. may be ok though, but keep an eye on them. NZ sun is intense. Even indoors the frogs still seem to know when it is raining outdoors. :nilly: good point :facepalm: but my albinos did like being in the nature light because they were making a racket when they were inside by the window, keeping everyone awake, but they stop croaking as soon as i moved the whole set up into the garage. even though the same setup up and still with there exo terra light hood (the one with the 2 spots and 2 uv tubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Its a shame that you cant import more but guess there is to much risk with disease. The albinos originate in NZ. None overseas as far as I am aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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