discusnoobie Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Hey guys We have a 500litre tank, been set up over 18 months with no issues. Currently stocking - 5 discus (Were 6...) - 1 leopard ctenapoma - 1 ghost knife - 1 kribensis (were 5 but the other 4 paired off so are now in seperate tanks) - 4 large bristlenose Tank is planted, run off a sunsun external filter with uv purifier. Fed on a mix of discus bits, frozen bloodworms, tropical granules, pleco logs and cichlid sticks sometimes. 20% water change done every two - three weeks. Tank stats: PH - 6.8-7. pretty stable, have never tried to adjust it down Ammonia - 0 Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 0 About 5 months ago, two of the discus (the middle sized not the smallest) went quite dark. The started breathing rapidly and were almost jerky in their movements. On advice from hollywood fish farm and the fisho dude at animates who had always been helpful to us, we got Adtape from the vets and dosed the whole tank. Had no signs of worms at all. Dosed again 3 weeks later as fish still weren't right. nThey were both eating still and very active at feeding times. Fish continued to get darker, and started to look skinny. Then started lying on their side in the corner of the tank! We thought it was the end, took a water sample down to the fish store to make sure everything was ok in case our kit was false reading. all stats good. did a 40% water change. fish didn't die but it's been about 3 months of them lying on their side, sometimes they even lie on top of one another. lost all colour and are black. The leopard ctenapoma has also started being jerky and not breathing well. spend a lot of time hiding in corner of tank Went back to hollywood and to animates, couldn't get any more info out of either. did a 2 week course of Furan-2 on their advice. no improvement. They have now recommended Trisul but the vet won't sell to us. ANd finally, my pride and joy Henry, a gorgeus large snakeskin has just started showing his heckle bars and clamping his top fin and doing rapid jerky movments I don't know what else to do, it;s obviously contagious and that's why we didn't split them up into quarantine tanks on the advice of the experts. Any help guys would be awesome. It's been five months. We lost one of the discus (who first showed it) yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishie123 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Hello, Sorry for your lost. It is most likely to be Discus plague disease which is a rare nasty virus. It isn't curable as what I have read. Read the article below. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/discus_plague.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Sounds like hexmita (spelling?) you need to treat with metronidizole (spelling again) one 400mg tablet per 40l daily for 7 days with a water change can even be twice daily as metro only lasts 8 hours in water. Most people treat their discus with both metro and prazi (adtape) when they go dark, some even treat them routinely even when they are showing no symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ryan when you write Hexamita, do you mean "hole in the head"? Surely that would be visible? Also Metronidazole cannot be bought over the counter here and discusnoobie has already been denied fish drugs by a vet by the sounds of it. When I first bought 5 young discus, 3 of them did exactly the same.. went dark and was sulking in the corner until in the end lying on the bottom and eventually died... I put it down to stress and/or low quality inbred fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishie123 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Would you be able to post some photos of the discus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 20% water changes every 2 or 3 weeks sound to small, i would be doing 20-30% twice a week. Do you gravel vac every time? How well oxygenated is the tank? Does it have much surface disruption i.e spray bar pointing up or above the water to help oxygenation? How are the ghost knife and b/nose acting, breathing fast or normal? How often do you clean out the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ryan when you write Hexamita, do you mean "hole in the head"? Surely that would be visible? Also Metronidazole cannot be bought over the counter here and discusnoobie has already been denied fish drugs by a vet by the sounds of it. When I first bought 5 young discus, 3 of them did exactly the same.. went dark and was sulking in the corner until in the end lying on the bottom and eventually died... I put it down to stress and/or low quality inbred fish. Hex can be present in many way shapes and forms (some suggest that it is actually responsible for malawi bloat as well but doesn't present the same way with these fish). Some say that discus always carry it and when they get stressed it can cause major issues which usually result in them going black and getting skinny etc. Metro (flagyl) is relatively easy to get if you go in and talk to a vet explain what you need it for what you are trying to treat dosage etc, it can sometimes be sourced if you know someone who is in the medical profession, my wife got prescribed some the other day for a gum infection so it is out there and used for all sorts for humans. If you know someone who is serious about their racing pigeons they can usually get it over the counter at any vet too because they use metro quite often, someone on here may also be able to help source it, Not really that experienced with discus but from the countless posts I have seen experienced people post on metro/prazi would be the first place I would start (especially considering a course of furan has already been done). You have already treated with prazi so pretty much running out of options. I agree the the water changes should be done more often too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Water changes every 2-3 weeks? I'd do them once a week at minimum if you are having problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplants Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Sorry to hear about your lost fish, and the condition of the others. I would agree with the others, you need to change the water more frequently especially while the fish are sick. There is lots of information you haven't provided - like do you use aged water/treat with water conditioner? How long have the discus been in the tank? What dosage of Prazi did you do? Are the fish pooing? What colour is the poo? Are the fish eating? Do the fish lie on their sides only at night? Otherwise, Metronidazole (Trichozole vet only) is a good option to try, as is Levamisole (Aviverm available over the counter). BTW, Hole-in-the-head is more attributable to nutritional deficiencies, which may be due to hex, or lack of nutrients in their food. There is no 100% correlation proved. I hope this helps. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusdude Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 "breathing rapidly and were almost jerky in their movements" could be a sign of gill flukes ?? Did you see them flicking or rubbing on things in the tank?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplants Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 "breathing rapidly and were almost jerky in their movements" could be a sign of gill flukes ?? Did you see them flicking or rubbing on things in the tank?? Assuming the dosage of praziquantel was sufficient, that should have taken care of any gill flukes. But without further information I am just speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I'm finding this Thread very interesting. I seem to be going through the same thing. I have lost 2 Discus in the past week, and it looks like another one is on it's way out. I transfered them into a 40 Ltr hospital tank, treated with Furan 2, no change, then did a course of Metro, twice a day with 100% water changes with each new dose, unfortunately I had no luck in saving them, lost my Big Fella last night Symptoms are exactly as it says for Discus Plague :an!gry I have 5 other Discus in my tank, with 1 not looking to healthy at the moment, really not sure what to do from here, maybe I should more the one thats not looking to healthy into the hospital tank. I'm doing 50% water changes twice a week, may just have to up the water changes and hope for the best I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusnoobie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 20% water changes every 2 or 3 weeks sound to small, i would be doing 20-30% twice a week. Do you gravel vac every time? How well oxygenated is the tank? Does it have much surface disruption i.e spray bar pointing up or above the water to help oxygenation? How are the ghost knife and b/nose acting, breathing fast or normal? How often do you clean out the filter? since posting upped water changes to weekly 20-30%. Doesn't seem to have improved. When we were doing every 2-3 weeks we were gravel siphoning every time. We have a bubble wall, and a large stone in a corner. spray bar is under the water but pointing up. The ghosty seems fine. Very active and hasnt shown any signs of sickness at all. Same for the b/nose. Filter we change the wool every 8 weeks. Havent touched the noodles since starting up the tank. Carbon we've removed due to on/off again treating with meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusnoobie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hello, Sorry for your lost. It is most likely to be Discus plague disease which is a rare nasty virus. It isn't curable as what I have read. Read the article below. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/discus_plague.htm/quote:2jiljltl Hmmmm, they haven't shown any signs of muscous. Do they have to have that? Definitely dark and hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusnoobie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Sorry to hear about your lost fish, and the condition of the others. I would agree with the others, you need to change the water more frequently especially while the fish are sick. There is lots of information you haven't provided - like do you use aged water/treat with water conditioner? How long have the discus been in the tank? What dosage of Prazi did you do? Are the fish pooing? What colour is the poo? Are the fish eating? Do the fish lie on their sides only at night? Otherwise, Metronidazole (Trichozole vet only) is a good option to try, as is Levamisole (Aviverm available over the counter). BTW, Hole-in-the-head is more attributable to nutritional deficiencies, which may be due to hex, or lack of nutrients in their food. There is no 100% correlation proved. I hope this helps. Good luck Aged water - we have a few tanks so we use a large plastic container, put stress coat in and leave to sit while gravel siphoning etc. Then we have a pump rigged up to a hose that we put in the container, and the hose into the tank to transfer the water back in nice and slow to not stress the fish. Discus: tank set up 18 months. Cycled for 2 months with kribs and plecs. 4 small discus (same batch) added at that time. Henry the snakeskin, the ghosty and leopard and other discus added about a a year ago. No fish added since then Pooing - fish are pooing. Reddish poos. a few months ago saw one had long stringy white poo so thats when the adtape was used. Eating - hell yes smart little buggers recognize you every time you go to the tank haha. Even the one that died that was black as anyting and skinny and lying on his side would dart up for food. Lying on sides - Only one lies on his side now as other passed away. But they tend to do it all the time unless you go to the tank and they think you're going to feed them. Henry who has gotten skinny and has his heckel bars all dark has not started doing it yet. We have seperated the very dark one that was lying on his side into a smaller 40 l quarantine tank and treated him with adtape by himself but doesnt seem to have changed anything. Prazi/adtape - dosed at 20ml per litre as instructed by vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discusnoobie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hex can be present in many way shapes and forms (some suggest that it is actually responsible for malawi bloat as well but doesn't present the same way with these fish). Some say that discus always carry it and when they get stressed it can cause major issues which usually result in them going black and getting skinny etc. Metro (flagyl) is relatively easy to get if you go in and talk to a vet explain what you need it for what you are trying to treat dosage etc, it can sometimes be sourced if you know someone who is in the medical profession, my wife got prescribed some the other day for a gum infection so it is out there and used for all sorts for humans. If you know someone who is serious about their racing pigeons they can usually get it over the counter at any vet too because they use metro quite often, someone on here may also be able to help source it, Not really that experienced with discus but from the countless posts I have seen experienced people post on metro/prazi would be the first place I would start (especially considering a course of furan has already been done). You have already treated with prazi so pretty much running out of options. I agree the the water changes should be done more often too. the metro, how would you go about getting it? is it an antibiotic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplants Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Metronidazole (as Trichozole 200mg/400mg tablets) can only be purchased by prescription, from a vet. You can also buy it in an aqueous solution, although I found this very expensive (also only prescription). Short of taking the fish in to the vet, you need to to talk to a vet and describe your problem, and what steps you have already undertaken. Don't expect them to say yes if you just ring up and say "I want some metronidazole"! If you can get some Trichozole, PM me and I will run you through what has worked for me. Also, Prazi is best done in a two dose approach, 5-7 days apart. I don't know the active ingredient percentage of Adtape so don't know if your single dose was sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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