lduncan Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I think it will more than likely make your tank look better, but WAY too risky for my liking, there is potential for damage, and there are too many uncontrollable variables involved. I also don't believe it is healthy for corals either. This is assuming my theory is what actually happens. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 with amounts of zeostart and zeofood etc.....It almost seems to act like a bleach....Mmmmmm........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Stripping everything away....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Has anyone tried it without using the Zeofood or the Zeostart. Now that would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Metal eating bacteria? Is that the stuff that attacks old Honda's & Datsuns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 That would be rust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Uncontrollable variables? Hmmm... Wonder what they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 phosphate and nutrients/nitrates can only leave a zeo tank a few ways 1) water changes, but at the low levels done i do not think it would lower levels like people say 2) skimmate, but unless something makes the organics more skimmable, which you should be able to "see" in the skimate" 3) in the rocks when you change them.... is the phosphate binding with the al in the rocks, and in the bacterial process that does this, nitrate is used up????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 The P leaves via the skimmer. The zeovit system will not work in a skimmerless tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Well Hey, guess what happened to that gram stain thread now!! I had suspected from the outset that it would be kept open regardless, while it looked like the claims of T Pohl may be prooved false. So now it starts looking likely that the ingredient claims for zeobak will be substantiated - time to close the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Wasp ? I don't know what your talking about but it sounds interesting, more info please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 It's the thread LDuncan directed us to earlier, this one http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=510427 Just find it frustrating, a test was about to be conducted, a result would have been produced, they should have let the project finish. I had even pledged some of my own money for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hopefully the thread will be unlocked at a later date. I don't know why the moderators don't just delete inappropriate posts. Some were just stupid. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Well I got to update the information on this, a while back doubt was cast on wether the zeovit manufacturers claims were true, as regards to the contents of one of the ingredients, called Zeobac. We then immediately had some people accepting these claims as "fact", and coming out with some bizzare theories as to the "real" way zeovit works, and the usual "snake oil" claims etc. The group psychology then swung in and I even started to have doubts myself! Anyhow, further work has been done, and it now turns out that zeobac in fact does contain a bacteria culture, of several different types, exactly as claimed by the manufacturer. My faith in the manufacturer has been restored, and for anyone interested here is the link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... ost4260588 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Well I got to update the information on this, a while back doubt was cast on wether the zeovit manufacturers claims were true, as regards to the contents of one of the ingredients, called Zeobac. Some of the manufactures claims on how the system works are outright impossibilities. We then immediately had some people accepting these claims as "fact", and coming out with some bizzare theories as to the "real" way zeovit works, and the usual "snake oil" claims etc. The group psychology then swung in and I even started to have doubts myself! So your accepting the manufactures claims as fact? Anyhow, further work has been done, and it now turns out that zeobac in fact does contain a bacteria culture, of several different types, exactly as claimed by the manufacturer. Bacteria is everywhere. Whether or not it contained bacteria was only the tip of the ice, like I have said, adding bacteria to a cycled tank is pointless. Zeovit effects come from other mechanisms, not those described by the manufacturer. The question is are these effects healthy for corals? My faith in the manufacturer has been restored, and for anyone interested here is the link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... ost4260588 It honestly shouldn't restore any faith in the manufacturer. But if you want to use the product I won't stop you. But misinformation is a disease which needs to be stopped. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Layton you are still doing it. You continue to make wild claims and misinformation with no proof. Here is a clasic example - Some of the manufactures claims on how the system works are outright impossibilities.Layton Please enlighten us. Specifically which claims are an outright impossibilty? It would make me real happy if you could take your own advice as follows:- misinformation is a disease which needs to be stopped. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 "The effectiveness of this system in reducing nutrients could result in changes that are too abrupt when High flow rates are used. However corals need time to adapt to these new nutrient conditions" Wrong. Reducing nutrients quickly will never cause problems. "It is important not to exceed this recommended amount, because excessive amounts of ZEOvit could have a negative effect on SPS corals and lead to tissue necrosis and therefore coral death... ...This problem occurs usually because of the rapid change in nutrient conditions in the tank." Wrong. "The material does not directly remove nitrite nitrate or phosphate... ... It permanently absorbs ammonium and ammonia..." The system can not work like this because even the zeolites which do absorb ammonium in sea water, have a very weak affinity for it, plus the fact that bacteria would prevent the ion exchange process from happening at all after a few days. "Certain other elements are absorbed as well and require addition to counteract depletion which would have a negative effect on the environment." I wonder what those "certain elements" are? "The pump should be switched on and off at an interval of 3 hours leading to an alternating environment of aerobic and anerobic conditions." Wrong. This would require around 3 days, even with high bacteria density. "An interruption of this chain leads to a disturbance and the accumulation of unwanted substances. For this reason, renewed dosing of the bacterial solution is recommended." What? An interruption to the "chain" would mean your tank would crash, effectively going through another cycle. And it continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Would you use a product which has the following warnings in it's user guide? zeovit High water flow through the media in already stocked tanks especially during the start up of this system has shown to cause slow tissue loss in SPS corals." excessive amounts of ZEOvit could have a negative effect of SPS corals and lead to tissue necrosis and therefore coral death. zeobak Our experience has shown that constant excessive overdosing can lead to tissue loss from the base especially in weak corals and corals that are already damaged. Over dosage in a nutrient poor environment leads to a darkening of the coral tissue. zeostart ... loss of coral tissue from the tips, or a slow progressing tissue loss from the base ... as well as a complete loss of all tissue in certain corals during your tanks dark period. Another indicator is the fast tissue loss of an entire coral branch over a short period of time. Does it not make you wonder what is REALLY going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Zeovit effects come from other mechanisms, not those described by the manufacturer. Layton I see nothing in your last couple of posts to substantiate this. Unproven conjecture, plenty, but actual EVIDENCE, none, as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I never said I knew what the mechanisms are. But I know that they are not those presented by the manufacturer as fact. I have theories, which of course are unproven, yet based on sound long standing research and fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 there are too many uncontrollable variables involved. I also don't believe it is healthy for corals either. This is assuming my theory is what actually happens. Layton I think your last sentence is the rub. I do have respect for your theory, and the degree of thought you must have put into it. But having said that, your theory is just that, a theory. Unproven. One of many. If by some chance your theory is wrong, all your other statements about why zeovit doesn't work as claimed, will also fall down, because you offer no evidence for what you say. That's why I regard your arguments as weak and unproven. However, anyone is welcome to have a theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 wasp, what is your water change routine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 If by some chance your theory is wrong, all your other statements about why zeovit doesn't work as claimed, will also fall down, because you offer no evidence for what you say. No. If my theory is incorrect then it is incorrect. It doesn't change the fact that the one presented by the manufacturer is wrong for many basic reasons. It is wrong, and always will be wrong, independent of whether mine is right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I never said I knew what the mechanisms are. But I know that they are not those presented by the manufacturer as fact. I have theories, which of course are unproven, yet based on sound long standing research and fact. Yikes! You just did it AGAIN!!!!! Look what you just said! You said 'But I "know" that they are not those presented by the manufacturer" Please - What do I have to do to get you to proove anything you say? If you "know" it, proove it. If you have no evidence, you in fact don't know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 No. If my theory is incorrect then it is incorrect. It doesn't change the fact that the one presented by the manufacturer is wrong for many basic reasons. It is wrong, and always will be wrong, independent of whether mine is right or wrong. Don't just keep saying "wrong" Anybody can do that. PROOVE IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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