Injury or Disease?

[Ice222]

I just found one of my adult CPDS looks like it's got a red sore/injury on one side. It looks like it's under the skin almost like a bruise, and the whole area looks slightly swollen. The 'bruise' looks quite red, so it almost looks like it's bleeding. I've attached a photo, but it's just from a phone as my camera wasn't on hand when I had the fish netted for a better look. It would be great if any one cna help me try id it or recommend any course of treatment.

Don't know if it's relevant but I'll post it just in case. About a week a go I had a betta in the same tank that developed abdominal swelling and pineconing that I assumed was dropsy. Aside from that the only things I have done differently recently is feed some frozen bloodworms. Water parameters are fine too, PH is just below 7, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5ppm or possibly less, which is lower than I thought it's be since the last WC was about 4-5 days ago.

There's nothing sharp in the tank for the fish to get injured on and all it's with at the moment are dwarf cories, otocats and more cpds so nothing aggressive to bash it around. They've been hanging out near the heater a fair bit though ever since I put a plant in front of it, but I'm not sure if it could be a burn.

[Ice222]

I've done some more googling but still no luck with any info. The closest looking thing I've seen from pictures is 'Egg Associated Inflammation' but I'm quite certain that this is a male fish so I'm really at a lost. I'd be really grateful if anyone can shed some light. Meanwhile I have upped the water changes in hopes that that would help since I'm not sure what else I should do to treat it.

[phoenix44]

Try hemorrhagic septicemia

[Ice222]

Try hemorrhagic septicemia

Had a look but couldn't find any good pictures of it on smaller fish for comparison. I did have another look at my fish just now though, and the bruising looks less like bruising today, and more like tiny blisters or a coldsore, so I guess it could still be something viral. Below is a better picture for comparison. I have it separated from the other fish now via a floated bag in the tank, but it would still be good to know what it is so that I can hopefully do something to prevent an outbreak in the main tank.

[Ice222]

It looked miserable today. So I had it euthenised today (Clove oil + vodka method). Such a shame, although the photos in this thread doesn't show it (stress from being netted), it was a stunning fish with brilliant colour. CPDs pale rather quickly when stress and since it still kept it's bright colouration when asleep in the clove oil, I reckon it went pretty peacefully. Hopefully none of my other fish will get sick since I'm still not sure what it is or how to go about treating it.

[Jennifer]

Try hemorrhagic septicemia

+1

Sorry for your loss. I would have guessed heamorrhagic septicaemia also, but it is very hard to tell. Treating with furan would be a good place to start if the condition shows up in your other fish.

[Ice222]

Now I see, when I googled it before what I keep getting was viral hemorrhagic septicemia, which kept coming up with fish farms and trout and nothing on tropical fish. Turns out there's also a bacterial version which I'm guessing is what I am most likely looking at? I'm keeping a very close eye on the rest, just hard to see in small fish like this though. I think I'll go pick up some furan tomorrow, even if I don't end up needing it this time, I'm sure it'll be good to have some on hand.

[pink_fish]

+1

Sorry for your loss. I would have guessed haemorrhagic septicaemia also, but it is very hard to tell. Treating with furan would be a good place to start if the condition shows up in your other fish.

Late in the game, me, but thought I'd offer my two cents as I've almost definitely had fish with viral haemorrhagic septicaemia, and this may be what your fish had – I've not heard of a bacterial variety (could you post the linky?). Not to be a scaremonger, but I would recommend not moving any fish in or out of your tank for some months because the problem is a virus which is incurable and it is reputed to survive in 'carrier' fish (i.e. it can permanently 'hide' in other fish in your tank without them appearing to have it, and these fish can then infect any other fish at any time) and perhaps survive in tank equipment – this would tally with my experience of it in one tank (which I am now planning to run until all the occupants [potential carriers] have passed on and then leave it empty for a year or two [i had a BIG problem with haemorrhagic septicaemia!]).

Your fighter that looked like it had dropsy probably did have dropsy – but dropsy is a symptom (of kidney failure), not a disease (i.e. it is a runny nose rather than a cold), and the symptom of dropsy could have any number of causes, including haemorrhagic septicaemia.

If I find the link that I had several months back to some good reputable info on haemorrhagic septicaemia, I'll post it for you – I hope it isn't what your fish have had!

[Ice222]

Late in the game, me, but thought I'd offer my two cents as I've almost definitely had fish with viral haemorrhagic septicaemia, and this may be what your fish had – I've not heard of a bacterial variety (could you post the linky?). Not to be a scaremonger, but I would recommend not moving any fish in or out of your tank for some months because: the problem is a virus and is incurable; it is also reputed to survive in 'carrier' fish (i.e. it can permanently 'hide' in other fish in your tank without them appearing to have it, and these fish can then infect any other fish at any time) and perhaps survive in tank equipment – this would tally with my experience of it in one tank (which I am now planning to run until all the occupants [potential carriers] have passed on and then leave it empty for a year or two [i had a BIG problem with haemorrhagic septicaemia!]).

Your fighter that looked like it had dropsy probably did have dropsy – but dropsy is a symptom (of kidney failure), not a disease (i.e. it is a runny nose rather than a cold), and the symptom of dropsy could have any number of causes, including haemorrhagic septicaemia.

If I find the link that I had several months back to some good reputable info on haemorrhagic septicaemia, I'll post it for you – I hope it isn't what your fish have had!

The first is the wiki on the viral version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_hemo ... septicemia

And this is the bacterial:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromonas_hydrophila

Aeromonas hydrophila seems to be the name of the bacteria that causes it, and hemorrahgic septicmia is a symptom? I've bought a packet of Furan recently, they have hemorrhagic septicemia listed as a bacteria as well. I'm not sure how to tell the viral and bacterial versions apart but considering that most of the fishkeeping informational sources seem to list the bacterial kind and the viral kind seems to come up with farmed fish or game fish, I'm just guess (and hoping) that it's the bacterial one.

[alanmin4304]

Tropical fish get both. If antibiotics don't work it is viral

Many years ago the goldfish in NZ were pretty full of aeromonus. I had a friend who was a bacterologist do some probing and he came up with aeromonas but did not serotype it. He did a full range of antibiotic resistance tests and found that Bactrim was the cheapest that was effective and could be used at quite a few times the normal dose with safety. Aeromonas bacteria are frequently in the soil. It is a prescription only drug so the cheapest option would be to try furan2. Otherwise off to the vet.