Whitespot on bullies?

[BigBossPants]

My female bully has what looks like whitespot... I have been treating the tank with salt and white spot cure but she is getting worse. It started out with just a few larger spots which came and went. The spots are larger than I have seen before with whitespot and do not seem to respond to treatment.

Any suggestions as to what it could be or possible treatments?

[Stella]

Hmm, could be columnaris, that can look 'spotty' on the scaled fish. The 'spots' look slightly irregular compared to normal whitespot.

You probably have a more chronic condition here, rather than the ones that kill in 24 hours. Good!

What I recommend for this is salt at 1tsp (6g) per litre. Keep doing lots of waterchanges and replace the salt removed each time. It may take a while to clear up (expect a couple of weeks).

If it isn't columnaris, this rate is twice what will kill whitespot, so you have that covered too.

I researched the various 'cures' and malachite/formalin/etc medications with regards to native fish. In the end I couldn't find a COLD WATER protocol that I felt comfortable putting in the book. Everything is aimed at tropical temperatures where the lifecycles are faster and the fish don't have to be in these rather nasty chemicals for so long. Also the salt STAYS PUT, unlike those meds which degrade in light etc.

Next: why did she get this? Usually it is a sign of things being chronically not right, temperature and/or water quality. This is common in summer, can be a handy indicator.

[BigBossPants]

The bullies are in a 50l tank, plumbed to another 50l containing axies, on a 60l sump.

Not sure how she got this... Have been draining the sump weekly. She had been laying lots of eggs.

Could have been introduced from other tanks? Tanks at work?

[BigBossPants]

I gave her a salt dip the other day, she has more spots since then and is clamping her tail a bit. Have never seen the temp over 20*C

[Stella]

Columnaris is in all water anyway, it just gets in opportunistically. Whitespot is a parasite that will only be there if it was brought in on a fish (likely in wild-caught fish)

Sounds like a good setup, and the temperature is great. Egg production can put the females in poor condition. Who knows? :-?

Salt dips can be useful in addition. Around 5tsp per litre, dissolved before adding the fish, is good for a salt dip. I use a small container and just one litre of tank water. Keeping the fish in the net the whole time makes it faster. I count in my head as I do it, and take the fish out at one minute, earlier if it is too stressed or loses equilibrium.

[Joe]

Sorry to say, but that is most likely columnaris. It looks exactly like what I had in my tank a few months back. It wiped out just about everything in about 3-5 days.

Try Furan 2. I was too late with treating my fish, so I didn't bother. But hopefully you'll still have time for yours. I've heard Furan 2 is very good for treating columnaris.

[Stella]

oh yes, I forget about Furan! Thanks Joefish!

Since this has been going on a while and she is not looking very happy, this could be a really good solution.

Since it is an antibiotic, it is probably best to use it in a hospital tank. Especially given the amount you would need given your whole set-up.

[BigBossPants]

Had a look at furan today, a bit too expensive for me.

Will those concentrations of salt be safe for the axies too? I could put the bully tank on a canister but its a bit of fluffing around.

With the water changes, do you think that changing 50l twice a week will be enough or should I do more?

[Joe]

The Furan comes in little capsual things apparently, and the entire packet is expensive because it contains more than 1. See if any local FNZAS members have a packet of Furan 2 and could sell you a couple of capsuals, which are about $3 each or something.

[Stella]

No idea about axies. The must have been getting medicated before anyway, probably not good for anyone to be medicated without cause.

Just to make things manageable you are best using a hospital tank anyway. Or bucket, or tub.

Adding a filter to a hospital tank may be pointless - the salt will probably really affect the cycling. Just do it easy: daily 30% water changes (or similar), and be religious with the salt. Measure or weigh it out. If you are worried about temperature in a smaller tank, put a fan on the top for evaporative cooling, just remember to top up with freshwater before doing the waterchange, or the salt will get concentrated.

Furan is expensive, but buying capsules off other people is only sensible if you can get a full course of them - antibiotics are not something to play around with partial courses, that is a big part of why we now have superbugs.

[BigBossPants]

Ok I will give it a go taking them off the system and dosing with salt. Am weighing out the salt

[BigBossPants]

Pic from today, looks to be getting worse

[phoenix44]

It's whitespot.

[Stella]

Aw man, that is bad Very serious.

The spots don't look uniform enough to me for it to be whitespot, but that that it is on the fins like that looks like it is. Confusing.

If it is whitespot, I would expect you need to be medicating for a good four weeks or so. Damned long lifecycle in cold water Unfortunately the salt is not as fast as the other medications, but that length of time (plus their degradation) makes it so hard to safely and effectively use them in cold. You need to continue to treat for at least one week AFTER the last spot has dissappeared, though in such a severe case, I would go for two weeks.

[BigBossPants]

I initially thought it must be whitespot but the spots are massive and kinda clumping together, never seen whitespot like it. The initial spots looked like little cysts under the skin. Doing 50% changes daily and adding salt removed. Temp is up a bit since taking off the system but am combating that with fan and airstone. Boys now have spots, mainly on their fins but spreading to their bodies. Almost seems the more I treat the worse it gets :'(

[Joe]

Maybe it might be easier to put the poor fish out of its misery?

[BigBossPants]

I did consider that but she is still swimming around and eating, doesnt look overly depressed. Plus the boys have it too so will need to treat the whole tank anyway.

[BigBossPants]

Mrs bully has fully recovered thanks heaps for your advice stella!

[Stella]

Oh that is great to hear! Always good to get a final update on threads like this.

Did you decide in the end if it was whitespot or something else?

And which treatment did you stick with?

[BigBossPants]

Pretty sure it was culminaris or however its spelled... I took them off the system and used 5g/l salt with a 50% water change every 2-3 days. Gave her salt dips for about the first week, she didnt react too well to those tho so stopped them.

[Mikey]

Awesome... I always like seeing fish pull through in these circumstances...

Tis nice to get good news stories every now and then.

Well done!

[BigBossPants]

She wouldnt be here without your expert advice stella! She does appear to have some damage to the edges of her fins but Im sure it will come right in time