Brianemone Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 What a STUPID response hmmm wasp i'm glad you understood, pies you should relax alittle, im not trying to be negative and your statement about no actinics or streams is exactly what i meant by my stupid response. so thank you for continuing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Brianemone - I am completely relaxed, thankyou. wasp i'm glad you understood, pies you should relax alittle, im not trying to be negative and your statement about no actinics or streams is exactly what i meant by my stupid response. so thank you for continuing it. Now I am confused. I added in the bit about actinics and streams to highlight how stupid it was. e.g. Heaters are used to heat the water, in nature the water is warm. What exaclty does garlic replace in nature for the fish? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 I have to say I agree with pies, I have read lots of articles from people that rather than medicate their tank split 1 days feeding into 10 small piles and feed that over the space of two hours or so this is less stressfull for the fish and helps their immune system aparently. But that is only peoples opinions I don't think there is any science to back it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 OK Dan, Pies, and others, I think if we all got together in the same room we would discover we all agree on a heckuva lot more than we seem to disagree on. The applying natural methods argument is just a matter of degree, some variation from nature is required in a tank, peoples opinion on how far they like to take that will vary from one person to another, nothing wrong with that. I'm lazy, so I'll use any method that works, natural or not. One thing I think I do disagree with some peoples opinions is where it has been said there is no scientific evidence garlic will work. Garlic has in fact been demonstrated to repel, dislodge, and kill parasites. Wether a person wishes to use that in their own tank is their own choice. I'll just say I've used it on several occasions over the years, and best I can tell anyway, it has worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Hey if garlic works on vampires I don't see why it couldn't get rid of parasites! Have faith!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 There is another way that will help to remove white spot. This is based on that the fish is still eating and not that badly covered. I would also think the white spot that you have could be due to the temp changes we are having. You could try to daily water changes of about 20-30%. But make sure that if you use mixed salt water that you mix it overnight so that if dissolves well. This has worked well for me in my reef tank. On the odd occasion the white spot went overnight. White spot is not really a problem if the fish are healthy and the tank conditions are good, A few weeks ago I did a water change and in error got the salinity to 1.040. My fish in my sump all got white spot the next day. When I fixed my salinity the next day to 1.025 the white was almost gone within a day. Do you have a pics of your blue tang?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 At least you would'nt have to wait for your NSW to dissolve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Hi ya, i've got to agree with pies on this, as my purple tang gets white spot every time i'm unable to feed the fish (out all night) i first use to panic and do rapid water changes or catch the fish to isolate it from the rest. What would happen is i'd stress the fish more and the water levels would start to do weird things and i'd spend a lot of time chasing my mistakes it would get worse no surprising realy, so i decided after a week of panic thats it!, i'l leave every thing alone and just do the normal water changes, feeding, and stop panicing, to my surprise it worked, the white spot went away. After awhile i noticed that the white spot comes the day after i didn't feed them and as long as i feed them that night the white spot would be gone by the next day, so now i don't panic and just relax. I've got to say it's a fine line, when to do something and when not to do something, it's hard especially when it happens for the first time you panic and do rash things and people on the forums always have different opinions on what to do and how to do it, and all that happens is you panic more and stress. I learnt the best thing is to check water quality, adjust it if needed, maybe do a 10-20% water change (depending on how bad a case) and give it a couple of days check it again, hopefully things have got better and relax. If it's a realy bad case then seek help, but try not to panic as you end up doing some realy stupid things. Regards Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 At least you would'nt have to wait for your NSW to dissolve Thanks for that tip Steve; I think most people know that NSW does not have to be mixed. I thought it is pretty obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 *Plugs diagnostic tool into Reef's ear* Ah, I see the problem, your humor detector is faulty. That'll be $250 for the diagnostic, please. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Some good points Kermit. Where the ability of ich to attack is enhanced by stress on the fish, then reducing the cause of that stress whatever it is should be of benefit, so if it's water, then a wc may help. Also, while the ich is in it's "pod" stage they just lay on the bottom of the tank, so even a simple syphon may reduce numbers. I've been reading an interesting piece by a guy who believes ginger cured his ich outbreak. (I know some folks who cannot get past garlic will hate me for this! ) Anyhow, another guy did some research on a chemical called caprylic acid, that is an active ingredient in ginger, and came up with the following :- Hirazawa N., Oshima S., Hara T., Mitsuboshi T. and Hata K. 2001. Antiparasitic effect of medium-chain fatty acids against the ciliate Cryptocaryon irritans infestation in the red sea bream Pagrus major. Aquaculture.198:219-228. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Abstract: The antiparasitic effect of short-chain (carbon numbers C2 and C4) and medium-chain (carbon numbers C6–C10) fatty acids against the ciliate Cryptocaryon irritans was examined in in vitro trials. A challenge trial was conducted using the most effective fatty acid from in vitro trials to control C. irritans infestation on red sea bream Pagrus major at two temperatures (17°C and 24°C ). The in vitro results showed that C8 (caprylic acid) had the strongest antiparasitic effect against C. irritans theronts. In challenge trials, uninfected fish were divided into six groups, 30 fish in each group three groups for each temperature , and fish were fed the same amount of experimental diet expanded pellet with different doses of caprylic acid at 0 control , 37.5 and 75 mg caprylic acid/kg B.W./day during the experiment, and then 2000 theronts were placed into each of the six tanks for 5 days after initiating the feeding of the experimental diets. Five fish of each group were randomly sampled periodically. The number of parasites on the gills and the eye surface in the treatment groups caprylic acid were significantly fewer than in the control group at 17°C. Mortality of fish did not occur in treatment groups during the trial, although all control fish died. At 24°C, mortality of fish occurred in all groups on the same day but the number of parasites on the gills and the eye surface in the group fed 75 mg caprylic acid/kg B.W./day was significantly fewer than in the control group. Our results indicate that caprylic acid has an antiparasitic effect against C. irritans. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hirazawa N., Oshima S. and Hata K. 2001. In vitro assessment of the antiparasitic effect of caprylic acid against several fish parasites. Aquaculture.200:251-258. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Abstract: The antiparasitic effect of caprylic acid against several fish parasites, i.e., the ciliate Cryptocaryon irritans (theronts), monogenean Benedenia seriolae (oncomiracidia and adults), copepod Pseudocaligus fugu (copepodids and adults) and myxosporean Kudoa shiomitsui spores , was examined by in vitro trials. Caprylic acid at a concentration of 1 mM had a parasiticidal effect against C. irritans theronts, B. seriolae oncomiracidia and K. shiomitsui spores and a contractile effect against B. seriolae adults, but had no clear effect against P. fugu copepodids and adults. These results suggest that caprylic acid may have an antiparasitic effect against various fish parasites, including parasites classified as monogenea, ciliates and myxosporea. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's not all of it, but will do for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Doesnt matter now. I found the fish dead on new years day, basically 1 day after I posted this thread. I suspect it wasnt ich but the other one (Amylooddinium ocellatum) which has a lot more spots. It had probably 50-100 spots. but who knows. It was still eating well the night before. I had added a shrimp also as some people had suggested. The clown still looks ok but does look a bit lonely now. I take it that I should leave the system for a few weeks to try to get rid of it or let it recover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Gutted sry to hear that, Blue tangs are so cool. Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Sorry about the fish. (Amylooddinium ocellatum) is a real pain as fish die real quick. As they say prevention is better than cure as i would suggest that curing fish is not that succesfull. I try to treat fishthat are sick but not many have made it, maybe 2 in 50 have been cured. I find most of the time it is very hard to tell what they have. I wish it was as easy as treating for white spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Bummer to loose any fish, Reef is right, prevention is better than cure. Once the fish is sick, I suspect its more good luck than good management for the to survive anyway. Better luck. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Sorry to hear, that really sucks. Best of luck with the future. regards Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 stink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Ok now I'm worried, my last fish (tomato clown) looks like he has the spots now. I know this is serious as the last fish died of this. He looks stressed as he is hiding a bit as the blue tang did. Garlic didnt do much for the tang although it may have been too late. Does that salifert stuff really work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 It does work , however it my not be whitespot. I would remove the fish and treat with copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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