Sump design

[the-obstacle]

Hi,

Can somebody critique my sump design for me please? The inlet will empty straigth into water to keep the noise down then go up a wider than usual divider thish has filter wool in it that I can remove to clean / replace, then overflow to a bioball chamber, then onto a noodle chanber, and then finally into the pump chamber with 2 300W heaters and a suitable pump.

Because I intend to plumb in an automatic water changer / drip system I'll plumb in an overflow at the right level to then flow into another smaller tank (which I have lying around) that will act as a planted refugium / quarantine for new fish which then has a built in overflow which goes out to the wastewater or stormwater systems in the house. This second tank will also allow me to use it as an overflow tank with a pump on a float switch if I ever move the tank to where it will be below the wastewater piping in the house.

your thoughts? the tank I'm planning to use is a 1m long tank with glass and perspex dividers.

[livingart]

you could move the heaters to the next compartment in case your sump runs dry

i run one heater in the tank and one in the sump in case flow stops and tank cools too much if i am away

[Rabbit]

Also wouldn't put the heaters that close as they will play on each others thermostats.

[the-obstacle]

you could move the heaters to the next compartment in case your sump runs dry

i run one heater in the tank and one in the sump in case flow stops and tank cools too much if i am away

so 1 heater in with the noodles as there's always water in there?

Also wouldn't put the heaters that close as they will play on each others thermostats.

Yeah, this drawing is not to scale. Thinking of LA's post maybe one in the first chamber before the filter wool would be a good idea as it'll just be water (and crud) in there? would be a bitch to clean though.

[Mcculloch]

Would be better to have the refugium plumbed back into the system so your coepods and things get flushed back into your tank not down the drain.

[David R]

That design has great potential for overflow when your filter wool gets clogged. I tried a similar design with submerged filter wool and found it to be too restrictive with the volume of water flowing through the sump. I've redesigned it based around some filter bags from http://www.particlesolutionz.co.nz as I think they'll be far better than normal filter wool and have a longer life. Napier Aquarium uses them.

I don't think the heaters will be a problem, all my heaters sit right next to each other in the sump and seem to work fine.

The other question is why are you running both bioballs and ceramic noodles if they're both submerged? Bioballs work best above water, you're wasting space and money by putting them under water.

[the-obstacle]

That design has great potential for overflow when your filter wool gets clogged. I tried a similar design with submerged filter wool and found it to be too restrictive with the volume of water flowing through the sump. I've redesigned it based around some filter bags from http://www.particlesolutionz.co.nz as I think they'll be far better than normal filter wool and have a longer life. Napier Aquarium uses them.

awesome! I wasn't aware we could get them here. I did fear that the wool would block or collapse and just let the water through without stopping any particulate. Someone on MFK suggested the filter sock too which will be great.

I don't think the heaters will be a problem, all my heaters sit right next to each other in the sump and seem to work fine.

The other question is why are you running both bioballs and ceramic noodles if they're both submerged? Bioballs work best above water, you're wasting space and money by putting them under water.

I put this down to a complete lack of knowledge about bio balls. I see everybody else runs them so I thought I would too. The MFK thread has had someone tell me to replace the balls with more noodles too so I can clean half out at a time. Seems this is coming together. Thanks

[livingart]

david is right about the overflow

you could take the height of the first section of the dividers down a bit

[the-obstacle]

david is right about the overflow

you could take the height of the first section of the dividers down a bit

Yeah, but then I'd actually prefer to go the bag route if it's financially viable. I'll also lower the first divider down as a failsafe - can't be too careful.

[Zayne]

yes you need a alternative for if your filter wool clogged i just had a little cut out so if the filter wool got clogged it skiped that step and went straight on to the next, without water spilling every where.

[Rabbit]

It will be an indestructible sump by the time this mob are finished with it.

[David R]

It will be an indestructible sump by the time this mob are finished with it.

[suphew]

Is the sump for fresh or salt water? I assume it's for fresh or you shouldn't be looking at bio-balls and noodles. So if it's for fresh you don't need to have all those bubble traps just a simple divider will do, also (incase this is for salt) your bubble traps are backwards you want to force the bubble's to the surface as soon as possible so the water should go over first, then under.

I don't understand the refuge/QT. Unless your putting a filter in there or are planning on running a constant water change system the water in it wont get filtered and will quickly go nasty, besides what about the lack of oxygen and heat. It would make far more sense to use the space to build a bigger sump and have your refuge in there. You're QT should in no way be connected to the rest of your system, there is no point having it if it share's the same water system.

Is there a reason you want to use bio-balls AND noodles? The good thing about noodles is the large surface area to volume, but you'll have a massive sump so it's not a big deal for you. The down side's to noodles are the cost, and that they clog easily, problems in a sump where you'll need lots and they are difficult to take out and clean. Bio-balls on the other hand have a rubbish surface area, but thats not a big deal when you have loads of space, they are also cheap and don't clog. Because of the free space round bio-balls you can also put your heaters in with then.

Although it's fun, I think people over complicate sumps, they are best kept simple. A simple plastic container (even a rubbish bin or old fish tank) full of bio-balls (or anything really), pump and heaters sitting on or near the bottom, and the job is done.

[the-obstacle]

It will be an indestructible sump by the time this mob are finished with it.

:lol: so true. I think I'm finally getting the last little details sorted. I should really update the diagram...

Is the sump for fresh or salt water? I assume it's for fresh or you shouldn't be looking at bio-balls and noodles. So if it's for fresh you don't need to have all those bubble traps just a simple divider will do, also (incase this is for salt) your bubble traps are backwards you want to force the bubble's to the surface as soon as possible so the water should go over first, then under.

Oh yeah, it's for fresh water so they're just dividers.

I don't understand the refuge/QT. Unless your putting a filter in there or are planning on running a constant water change system the water in it wont get filtered and will quickly go nasty, besides what about the lack of oxygen and heat. It would make far more sense to use the space to build a bigger sump and have your refuge in there. You're QT should in no way be connected to the rest of your system, there is no point having it if it share's the same water system.

I am planning on running a constant water change system. 700L seems like too much of a pain in the arts to do manual water changes and the plumbing is nearby in the room where it's going so it'll be a piece of cake (famous last words). The refugium will have a constant drip feed from the overflow from this system but it'll be one way as the water will have to fall out of the sump to get there and the rufugium overflow (to wastewater) height will mean there'll never be enough water in it to close the loop back up and risk the quarantine tank being exposed to the main loop.

Is there a reason you want to use bio-balls AND noodles? The good thing about noodles is the large surface area to volume, but you'll have a massive sump so it's not a big deal for you. The down side's to noodles are the cost, and that they clog easily, problems in a sump where you'll need lots and they are difficult to take out and clean. Bio-balls on the other hand have a rubbish surface area, but thats not a big deal when you have loads of space, they are also cheap and don't clog. Because of the free space round bio-balls you can also put your heaters in with then.

This is my pure lack of understanding. I had no idea what/how bio balls were used and assumed they were the convention so I threw them in there. I've since realised that I'd be better off with noodles so will be replacing the balls with noodles and having 2 chambers so I can clean one out at a time (it's a long tank). After talking to David R I'm definitely going the filter sock route and with 2 canisters also running on the system I'm expecting there won't be much to clog the noodles.

Although it's fun, I think people over complicate sumps, they are best kept simple. A simple plastic container (even a rubbish bin or old fish tank) full of bio-balls (or anything really), pump and heaters sitting on or near the bottom, and the job is done.

haha, yep, this has started because I have 2 old fish tanks Fortunately I also have a bunch of dividers as one of my tanks was once a sump in a previous life so I figure I'd best use them. Also with the extra dividers in place I hope that the heavier crud that does somehow get through the filter socks will have a chance to settle before the pump section to avoid running the risk of blocking the pump and hopefully prolonging it's life.

Thanks for your suggestions, they did make me think which is exactly what I'm after.