Greek Tortoises

[Varanophile]

Does anyone know which country the Greek Tortoises in N.Z originated from? The range is massive. I have one for sale in private trade and sale section that has a marbled pattern, but I have seen olive green, dark brown, pale yellow and yellow. Would be interesting to know if we have the 'ibera form' here, or are they all european?

[repto]

A bit hard to say,but most originate from barbra wiltshire who imported 6 in 1965 and bred some 84(mostly male) from them.These were all sourced from the pet trade which were no doubt wild caught imports from who knows where?Yugoslavia,morroco,tunisia.

ivan had a big huge female his place for a while and we summised that by its colour and size could be an ibera?There are also others around from various origins??

[Varanophile]

A bit hard to say,but most originate from barbra wiltshire who imported 6 in 1965 and bred some 84(mostly male) from them.These were all sourced from the pet trade which were no doubt wild caught imports from who knows where?Yugoslavia,morroco,tunisia.

ivan had a big huge female his place for a while and we summised that by its colour and size could be an ibera?There are also others around from various origins??

interesting. have you ever seen olive green ones? I presume that Barbara's came from England?

[Varanophile]

also why are there more greeks here than hermann's? Is it due to original numbers imported or ease of breeding?

[repto]

yes,they came from england but anyones guess where before that?I have seen some of hers that were that olive green,not that pretty compared to some I have seen.Why do you say there are more than Herman`s?I know of alot more sucessful herman`s breeding than Spurthighs?

[Varanophile]

yes,they came from england but anyones guess where before that?I have seen some of hers that were that olive green,not that pretty compared to some I have seen.Why do you say there are more than Herman`s?I know of alot more sucessful herman`s breeding than Spurthighs?

only because 80% of those i have seen for sale are greek rather than hermann's.

[livingart]

I know of alot more sucessful herman`s breeding than Spurthighs?

i would think the same as well

only because 80% of those i have seen for sale are greek rather than hermann's.

that is only what has been openly for sale

[Varanophile]

repto, where do you think the olive green ones originate in terms of the range of the species?

[repto]

whats 80% as a number? 8 out of 10 forsale or 16 out of 20??

most spurthigh breeders I have heard of have huge fertility issues?herman`s seem to hibernate better in our country and the fertility is much higher ,they also seem to multiple clutch better.The main inhibiting factor is the lack of females??

[Varanophile]

whats 80% as a number? 8 out of 10 forsale or 16 out of 20??

most spurthigh breeders I have heard of have huge fertility issues?herman`s seem to hibernate better in our country and the fertility is much higher ,they also seem to multiple clutch better.The main inhibiting factor is the lack of females??

yeah, that would be an accuarte figure. lack of females because people incubate at wrong temp?

[repto]

not sure about that V.You would have to do some travel and checkout the local populations in their home range,tortoise trust in england may be able to help you out?

[repto]

I think they simply did not know about TDS or even have the technology to hold steady temps?

[Varanophile]

not sure about that V.You would have to do some travel and checkout the local populations in their home range,tortoise trust in england may be able to help you out?

cheers. good advice. thanks.

[livingart]

so what would identify an iberian from the several other sub species

[repto]

probably alot of guesswork?The main thing they seem to go by is the larger size.The wide range of areas they come from with eastern and western races etc and various localised populations with distinctive differences and features makes this a hard thing to prove or disprove for that matter.Couple this with the millions!!! that were caught and exported to england over the years prior to the banning of this practise,we could have alot of hybrids here?Most of these tortoises that were imported did not last long in captivity with the climate difference,but thats another story.

[Varanophile]

so what would identify an iberian from the several other sub species

also portions of shell have very dark brown, almost black patterning. I think maybe also a larger animal too.

[repto]

whats with your comment on the other site about female not having spurs?I thought they both had them?Why you selling your future breeding stock?impatient or what?

[jc254]

also if you only produce males you will keep the price driven high, less/no females means less/no competition.

[livingart]

also if you only produce males you will keep the price driven high, less/no females means less/no competition.

also could possibly mean losing the breed in nz in the future some time

shouldn't be about competition or price

[Insect Direct]

I dont think many will even consider purchasing tortoises (around price of recent ones sold) unless they get a guarantee on getting a certain sex and or both. Even then thats a lot of trust.

[repto]

the early breedings were not intentionally all male.just a case of using primative incubation methods such as hotwater cupboards etc.The same thing happened with a man from Tauranga who hatched and raised some 23 Herman`s that were later sold around nz.They did not even know of their mistake till some years later and Temperature determined sexing was just a rumour?It did not matter much to breed them as they would just go out and catch more(england at least but alot of animals came to nz in the early 60`s before controls were placed.

[Varanophile]

whats with your comment on the other site about female not having spurs?I thought they both had them?Why you selling your future breeding stock?impatient or what?

Meant spurs on the male more obvious. Not impatient, need money. Settle Petal!

I'll put some more photos up of the tail.

[Varanophile]

I dont think many will even consider purchasing tortoises (around price of recent ones sold) unless they get a guarantee on getting a certain sex and or both. Even then thats a lot of trust.

I think given that there will always be a wait of at least 8 years from hatchling to breedable size they will hold their value. Price has gone up due to trademe. Previously I think people sold or swapped on the quiet. If you know what you are looking for then not too hard to work out males and females with tortoises....I'm no expert but I have had some experts confirm male and female for me.

[Insect Direct]

Yeah just saying, given recent prices they will appeal more to breeders (and or potential breeders) as appose to the average jo just wanting a pet. If theyre easily sexed then thats great.