Turning a steel stand into a cabinet

[elusive_fish]

I'm in the process of chaning my tank from fresh to marine, including a sump. While I have everything empty and disassembled I figured i'd turn my boring black welded steel stand into a cabinet of some sort. That way it will hide the sump and plumbing, and making it look more like a piece of furniture.

The obvious material choices are MDF or marine ply. I really have no idea what to use or what the design should look like.

Anyone done anything similar and can post photos or make suggestions?

[LYNDYLOO]

Maybe post a pic of your stand the way it is now, so we can give you some ideas as to what to do with it

[hovmoller]

Anything that has to do with water or humidity I would avoid using MDF.

Ply is way better or even particle board.

Yeah a pic of your stand would be good

[smidey]

forget the marine ply unless you plan on making a boat or skateboard ramp, it's not treated. Use treated ply if you are concerned about moisture.

with many years experience in the cabinet making industry i would go for ply & stain finish which would be the easiest especially if you are going to do some or all of it yourself. Use 17mm ply so you can get overlay cabinetry hinges bored into the doors, anything thinner will mean the hinge boring will penetrate the front of the panel. other than that, if you understand how overlay doors & panels work or know someone that does you be sweet, if you intend on paying a cabinet maker to do the job they should be able to do it no trouble. Please realise that you will/may see lamination gaps & lam overlays on the edges of the panels, this is a fact of life with plywood.

Anything that has to do with water or humidity I would avoid using MDF.

Ply is way better or even particle board.

Yeah a pic of your stand would be good

particle board & MDF perform very similar to each other with moisture, the only real difference is that particle board is pourous. this means it will soak it up but will then release it as well. MDF will absorb it, retain it's swollen size & go fluffy where as PB will release some of the moisture & the swelling will reduce very minimally. it will then start to break down. Both MDF & PB are worst for moisture on the edges, faces see very little water damage.

[hovmoller]

Smidey you must be the right person to ask this:

What about "block board"? where pieces of timber are glued together and sandwiched between two layers of veneer? I have a stand made of that where my 4x2x2 is on and I find it to be the most wonderful kind of board! So strong, light and dead straight... can you still buy that stuff anywhere? I know it was probably used a lot to make furniture.

Sorry Elusive fish it only sort of have something to do with your thread

[smidey]

PB & MDF are so common in cabinetmaking throughout the world, i have not come across that in practise. Timber would obviously perform better with moisture but timbers biggest downfall is it's grain & ability to move with it. these days it solely comes down to cost & anything with solid timber is not going to compete with MDF & PB. What ever product you choose will need different work, good quality MDF has a very smooth face for painting, particle board is a substrate material & i would recommend if using melamine or melteca to get the PB substrate and ply which is best being stained as it has quite a rough grained finish. it really depends on what finish you want, painted must be MDF, just make sure you seal the edges to prevent water soak age.

[elusive_fish]

The stand is welded 25mm box section steel. Functional, but ugly.

I'd imagine that the steel horizontal members near the floor would become a shelf for my sump. I just need to figure out the best way to 'wall in' the stand, and create a couple of doors for sump access.

[smidey]

that is so easy to clad with panels, end panels will extend 20mm in front of the front face of the frame. I would fit a short panel (75mm+-) across below the tank, the doors will be fitted to blocks on the end panels. There will be a little bit of messing around to allow the panels to be screwed to the frame from the inside but that's not much of an issue.

[hovmoller]

The bottom horizontal members are not really meant to have any load on them. I don't know how large a sump you are planning on resting on a shelf there but in that case I would just prop the long members with a few extra "feet" of timber block. Paint them black if they are going to stick beneath the cabinet.

May sound a bit of being too much on the safe side but I am used to dealing with buildings so I might be a bit "damaged"

[elusive_fish]

that is so easy to clad with panels, end panels will extend 20mm in front of the front face of the frame. I would fit a short panel (75mm+-) across below the tank, the doors will be fitted to blocks on the end panels. There will be a little bit of messing around to allow the panels to be screwed to the frame from the inside but that's not much of an issue.

So would the doors close against the steel frame, or close on to the strip across the top?

At the back, would the side panel also stick out 20mm from the frame, with the rear panel fitting in between the two side panels?

Given that the panels are not at all load bearing, would it be possible/sensible to glue them to the outside of the steel frame?

[livingart]

would it be possible/sensible to glue them to the outside of the steel frame

possible yes

sensible, they will be hard to remove if necessary in the future

as smidey said predrill the frame and screw on

i have had mdf properly sealed and painted that has lasted over 7 years on tank stands

[smidey]

So would the doors close against the steel frame, or close on to the strip across the top?

yes, against the steel frame. the panel at the top is a trim between the opening doors & the tank bottom. thinking about that i would also put them up above the bottom of the tank to hide the ugly bits at the bottom of the tank.

At the back, would the side panel also stick out 20mm from the frame, with the rear panel fitting in between the two side panels?

yes, if you wanted a back panel it would look better if the end panels overlayed the doors & back panels.

Given that the panels are not at all load bearing, would it be possible/sensible to glue them to the outside of the steel frame?

i wouldn't, chances of them falling off in future is high & you would need to clamp them on while they are drying etc. Screwing through the frame from inside is a much better option.

[elusive_fish]

Is this sorta what you mean?

(shown without shelf, back panel or doors?)

Screwing into the legs wont compromise the strength too much?

So I use a 20mm 'overhang' for 17mm ply?

[spoon]

thats good sketch up skills i just just black coreflute and black tape lol its worked alright so far but the downside is its proably not a lot cheaper

and you can get a nicer finish with timber

[smidey]

yep, that's the way.

[LYNDYLOO]

You could put the panels on Hinges, then screw to the steel frame, at least then everything is easily assecessable, then use those magnetic strip thingys like you have on cupboards to keep the panels closed.

I had a Tank and Stand custom made about 15 years ago, stand was made out of 18mm MDF, you wont need it to be that thick as it's not going to be weight bearing. Had the stand Lacquered with a Black Gloss looks fabulous. Had no trouble with Water seeping into the wood at all.

[spoon]

if your prepared to do a bit of work to seal it mdf would be ok like said before its mainly the edges that sustain water damage you can paint them than sand and paint to get a smooth finish and use a decent solvent based spraypaint then you be ok but may end up costing a fair bit in spraypaint to get a good finish as im finding out with my stand im building that you seen in my garage.

just to clarify about marine ply - people seem to think its more waterproof as its used for boat building but this is not the case it uses a different glue that will slip when steamed to allow the ply to be flexed for building hulls of boats it still needs to be sealed before exposure to water

[smidey]

You could put the panels on Hinges, then screw to the steel frame, at least then everything is easily assecessable, then use those magnetic strip thingys like you have on cupboards to keep the panels closed.

I had a Tank and Stand custom made about 15 years ago, stand was made out of 18mm MDF, you wont need it to be that thick as it's not going to be weight bearing. Had the stand Lacquered with a Black Gloss looks fabulous. Had no trouble with Water seeping into the wood at all.

i don't think you will be able to do either of these ideas, the hinge mounts are screwed further back than 20mm so blocking will need to be added to fit that mounts to & if you go any thinner than 16mm board the hinge cup boring will come through the panel unless you are referring to piano hinges which are not overlay.

[R32GOTMLK]

you could add 100 mm strips between the top and bottom rails on the front and use blind corner hinges which will keep the doors flush with the front of the end panels

[oneeyedfrog]

I have seen pics of a steel stand where they made screens and used magnets to hold them onto the stand. Then they had easy access to the sump. Also seen pics of thinner wood sides held on with magnets.

Or you could get some recycled t&g or we used kauri from our old ceiling

[elusive_fish]

I still have trouble understanding how the door will hinge. If i use my sketch up design, i take it the doors would close between the strips, so that they are flush with them? Wouldnt it be better to have the doors closing on to wooden surrounds? Im just worried that if go for a nice tight gap between the door and the surrounding wood, id have trouble closing the doors, especially if the hinges sag.

[smidey]

make the doors go between the top & bottom panels. if you use quality hinges they won't sag or if they do they are adjustable in every direction.

[elusive_fish]

Sorry for all the dumb questions, im no woodworker!

re: hinges

Would one side of the hinge be on the inside of the side panel, in the 20mm sticking out from the steel leg? The other on the back of the door?

Could I get away with less than 17mm ply? Thats some pretty substantial stuff considering its not load bearing. Or is the thickness really around having enough screw depth for hinges etc?

[smidey]

the cup that fits the hinge is bored 14mm into the panel so if you go for 15mm material you will only have 1mm of face left which isn't enough.

you will need to block for fitting the hinge mounts of the door hinges, i would fit a block onto the end panels rather than the frame, it will be easier. I would have a door at either end & a fixed panel in the centre so the doors aren't half your tanks length.

[elusive_fish]

This ply looks pretty cool... would it be suitable?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renovation/Building-supplies/Panels-boards/Plywood/auction-315844549.htm