oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 is it possible to do a 40L cold water marine tank ? i have a spare tank i was using to bring up baby swordtails but now its doing nothing so thought maybe i could setup a nano marine tank - thought about catching crabs and little rock pool fish from around the bay near us what do the experts reckon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 can be done, but will be hard to keep a small tank cool without a chiller local marine needs to be kept around 14-16c, though i have run them at 20c pump and lights will heat it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 ok that sounds cool - i wasnt planning on any lights being in our kitchen its quite well lit anyway - what are some gotchas about cold water marine ? ive read some of the posts about tropical setups and needing lots of gear etc but with such a small tank i hope to be able to do away with a lot of it.. * i assume i would need to cycle the tank for a couple of weeks (or longer) etc before getting any fish. * do you just use salt water from the ocean or can rock salt be added to tap water ? * what food will i need to get to feed the crabs and will the local fish etc eat food i have for my tropicals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 * i assume i would need to cycle the tank for a couple of weeks (or longer) etc before getting any fish. it can take up to 4 months to cycle a cold water marine, getting some "live rock" will help * do you just use salt water from the ocean or can rock salt be added to tap water ? saltwater from ocean, rocksalt and water wont work, daily water changes may allow you to get away with putting stuff in earlier * what food will i need to get to feed the crabs and will the local fish etc eat food i have for my tropicals mussels, shrimp fish, will also eat flake, marine flake is designed for use in marine tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 it can take up to 4 months to cycle a cold water marine, getting some "live rock" will help saltwater from ocean, rocksalt and water wont work, daily water changes may allow you to get away with putting stuff in earlier mussels, shrimp fish, will also eat flake, marine flake is designed for use in marine tanks holy crap 4 months - gees thats ages - by live rock do you mean the stuff that the pet shops sell ? or can i get a chunk of rock with "corals" etc on from the rocky shore line? does that class as live rock or just rock cool about the water - thought there might be other stuff in sea water than just water and salt :bounce: ok guess if im going to wait for 4 months for a cycle the food questions can all come later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 rock from beach is not porous, whereas live rock is coral that has been aged in saltwater and has good bacteria on it to help maintain your system there is a marine starter FAQ on here that is worth reading to give you the basics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 i read that starter a while ago but maybe i will refresh my shocking memory cause it really was ages ago... now i need to go find a small enough lump of live rock on the weekend to put in my nano tank.... i think im gunna really like having something totally different to my fresh water fish and turtles im thinking i might go take a look at the island bay marine reserve again and ask some more questions about starfishes, crabs, and other little critters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepsound Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Interesting project. As Livingart said, the most difficult thing is to keep the tank cold... With about 4kgs of live rocks (choose premium quality cause its the kidney of your tank) and weekly water changes, you can go for it. You don't need a lot of gear. But unlike freshwater, cycling a marine tank takes several months. Patience is the first thing you need. Good streaming is also very important. What are the dimensions of your tank ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 The tank dimensions are 50x25x30 (lxdxh) so actually only 35L Patience is something i need to learn - have always been pretty bad with wanting to do things on a whim - but this is something i have been thinking about for quite some time by streaming do you mean the water flow around the tank ? Cheers Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepsound Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Hi Skip Yes, it's the water flow. You have to use a special pump like this one, for instance: Large flow, low power consumption (under 5w). Check there is no dead zone. The water must circulate all around your live rocks. It oxygenates your tank, the bacteriums and avoid the accumulation of pollutants. With the pump, try to create some backwashes. It helps also to break that kinda oily film on the water surface (duknow the exact word in english...). A lot of informations here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 I raised the temperature to 24 deg during my fishless cycle using ammonia. Higher temp to speed up the process. It took 40 days from the time that the nitrites showed until they dropped. I then lowered the temp back down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 yep, but thats only half the cycle weka, the other half is nitrate to nitrogen gas by the anaerobic bacteria. Then you need to ge thru the algae cycles, just the same as a tropical marine, but takes longer. There are no shortcuts in cold or warm salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 If you use species from rockpools they are more tolerant of temperature fluctuations. I did monitoring for 2 years during my masters and temperature ranged from 10-28C and salinity had a range of 30-45 ppt (but changed more gradually then temperature). Typically in the summer, the inshore water is 18C so non-rockpool organisms will be fine at that as long as you acclimated them slowly back up from current temp. can be done, but will be hard to keep a small tank cool without a chiller local marine needs to be kept around 14-16c, though i have run them at 20c pump and lights will heat it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Hi Skip Yes, it's the water flow. You have to use a special pump like this one, for instance: Large flow, low power consumption (under 5w). Check there is no dead zone. The water must circulate all around your live rocks. It oxygenates your tank, the bacteriums and avoid the accumulation of pollutants. With the pump, try to create some backwashes. It helps also to break that kinda oily film on the water surface (duknow the exact word in english...). A lot of informations here i dunno if that pump would look HUGE in my nano tank - i think the filter i have pushes quite a bit of water around the tank but i will take a look with fresh water and food coloring to see if it would form a whirlpool type effect in the tank - that should be ok aye ? I raised the temperature to 24 deg during my fishless cycle using ammonia. Higher temp to speed up the process. It took 40 days from the time that the nitrites showed until they dropped. I then lowered the temp back down again. this sounds like a plan if it will speed up some of the process - where do you get straight ammonia from ? If you use species from rockpools they are more tolerant of temperature fluctuations. I did monitoring for 2 years during my masters and temperature ranged from 10-28C and salinity had a range of 30-45 ppt (but changed more gradually then temperature). Typically in the summer, the inshore water is 18C so non-rockpool organisms will be fine at that as long as you acclimated them slowly back up from current temp. thats good to know that a chiller is not 100% required. tiny rockpool fish, starfish, crabs, and whatever else i can find will be going in there eventually so i if i start now by getting some live rock this weekend - im looking at about October before adding any creatures in there with weekly 25% water changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Hi oO SKIPPY Oo I had difficulty finding pure ammonia but eventually found it at a Binn in Store. Do you have them in your town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 you dont need to add ammonia, put a bit of food in there, you'll have ammonia in a day or 2 as it rots. Adding ammonia is no shortcut, and is unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 as PP says take it slowly been doing this a long time and the only shortcuts i use are using already "live" rock and daily water changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Hi oO SKIPPY Oo I had difficulty finding pure ammonia but eventually found it at a Binn in Store. Do you have them in your town. it would appear we dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 as PP says take it slowly been doing this a long time and the only shortcuts i use are using already "live" rock and daily water changes ok that sounds like a plan - no point in being to quick - want to do this once and do it right no work tomorrow so will go check out some shops for live rock - anyone in welly know where to get some ? only need about 4kg - i think animalz in petone have some but does anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepsound Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 i dunno if that pump would look HUGE in my nano tank - i think the filter i have pushes quite a bit of water around the tank but i will take a look with fresh water and food coloring to see if it would form a whirlpool type effect in the tank - that should be ok aye ? Here are the features: * Dimensions : 8.5 x 5 x 5cm * Power : 4.5W * Flow : 900 l/h You can hide it behind the rocks. Those kinda pumps are better for a reef because they generate a large flow that moves a large quantity of water. It oxygenates your tank, raise PH and brings food to your corals. Corals don't like direct flow. In your tank, the biological filter are the live rocks. So you don't need any pads. If you use canister filter, it could produce an excess of nitrates in the tank. Bad for the corals. So better not to use that kind of filter. Live rocks and weekly water changes are enough for a nano tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 this guy runs canister filters on nz coldwater mainly jewel anenomes bigger tank but absolutely beautiful display http://www.reefkeepers.co.nz/forum/view ... f=10&t=424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepsound Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Thanx Livingart ! You know what ? I've already seen pics of this tank but on another website and I didn't know where did they come from Fabulous tank ! A proof that cold marine tank could be as interesting as tropical one. But as he said in his post, it's over skimmed. I understood oO SKIPPY Oo wants to use the filter for water circulation too. According to me, it's not the best way... And, in order to save money, it's possible to set up a marine tank without any skimmer or filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 just put it up as an example of what can be achieved local primary school here ran a 60 x 30 x 30 cm tank for 2 years running under gravel filters, berlin air operated skimmer, shell bed, inverts and plants weekly water changes, T8 gro light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted May 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 ok looks like i need to get looking at one of these wave maker pumps - the internal filter doesn't cut the mustard. i put 2 chucks of live rock in the tank and there is no way enough flow around them ... those dimensions dont look too bad so i better find something... I've put some shrimp in the tank to help it cycle - found a big bugger about 6.5cm long and 1cm wide with a few small ones about an 2cm long. one peice of live rock ive put in the tank has been cycling for a few months, got it from surphew last friday and a dry piece a the same time - about 3kgs in total cause anything more and there would be no room for the water Here are the features: * Dimensions : 8.5 x 5 x 5cm * Power : 4.5W * Flow : 900 l/h You can hide it behind the rocks. Those kinda pumps are better for a reef because they generate a large flow that moves a large quantity of water. It oxygenates your tank, raise PH and brings food to your corals. Corals don't like direct flow. In your tank, the biological filter are the live rocks. So you don't need any pads. If you use canister filter, it could produce an excess of nitrates in the tank. Bad for the corals. So better not to use that kind of filter. Live rocks and weekly water changes are enough for a nano tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted May 13, 2010 Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 In other words they maintained the system manually rather than relying on equipment. Good on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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