Sump design help please!

[elusive_fish]

Hi,

This is part of my initiative to put a large malawi cichlid tank in my cafe. I know nothing about sumps, except that it would probably be the way for me to go with a large tank. Ive been talking to a local 'professional' about doing this, and although he would no doubt do a great job, he wont commit to a firm price and his labour prices may put my project out of reach. My project is on the verge of being canned because I cant keep the costs to my budget... except maybe if I can do more of it myself (or mabye find some kind local volunteers who will work for food and appreciation? )

The tank will be about 2300 long x 700 wide x 600 high (nominally 966 litres) in 12mm glass. It will be viewable on three sides, with one of the short sides against a wall. I'd imagine this would be where all the plumbing would have to be?

This is sorta what it will look like:

Can anyone help me with links or sketches of a sump design that would work? Please help save my tank project!

Please note: I did try the search function, but it does appear to be broken!

[spoon]

sort of what i was talking about today sumps are great things to diy doesnt have to be perfectly neat and tidy as no one sees it doesnt have to be so complicated as things like bioball towers and the like either as your not going to be keeping huge fish with huge appetites you wont need a super efficeint filter the sheer size of the filter will be suffiecent . well it doesnt even need to be a glass tank could be a large plastic container or two plumbed together

[johnny]

Bro, I hope you don't can it. And if you get it up and running I will definately be having lucnh @ your Cafe.

[elusive_fish]

Great looking drawing spoon... only I cant really see it.

Also need to know about the overflow design and where holes need to be drilled etc.

Im so over this.

[spoon]

bit bigger now overflows are kinda the same can be as simple as a hole drilled near the top of the tank but can also get more complicated when you want certain things like surface skimming boxes and super quiet overflows perhaps with your tank you could have two holes drilled at that back wall one on either side of the rock wall 1 in 1 out. the more holes you drill the more it will cost keep that in mind for example you would be better off drilling two 30mm holes and plumbing a rather large return pump than drilling 4 15mm holes and using two smaller returns pumps. some might argue it would be better for circulation and picking up debris but it isnt a great idea cost wise. another option is to drill the holes in the bottom glass of the tank and use a vertical pipe coming up in the tank to set the water level height. as for plumbing fittings get hansen fittings from bunnings nice and simple to use heres a link just to confuse you further lots of formula in this one http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... turejp.htm

[elusive_fish]

The guy I was talking to was going to section off the last 10cm or so length of the tank as an overflow and then have the water draining vertically out the bottom to the sump below. Is there any advantages do doing it this way, or is it just as effective to just have a outlet hole drilled near the top?

[henward]

i seen exact same set up in thailand siam paragon mall

awesome, takes socialising away though:D\

[David R]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45185

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... y.php?f=29 <- numerous threads about sumps there

For the overflow, I'd suggest drilling a hole in the base of the tank so you can still have it hard up against the wall, and make a trapezoidal overflow on the end wall (shaped like this \_________/ ).

[Scottie841]

What is on the other side of the wall. Could you recess the tank in to the wall at all?

[spoon]

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45185

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... y.php?f=29 <- numerous threads about sumps there

For the overflow, I'd suggest drilling a hole in the base of the tank so you can still have it hard up against the wall, and make a trapezoidal overflow on the end wall (shaped like this \_________/ ).

thats a really good idea avoids messy silicone on the sides of the tank and can be built cheaply from perspex which you can cut and bend yourself could also be painted black or covered with a thin layer of poly cemented to match your wall

[k1w1y2k]

Check out the marine tank in Wonderworld Rotorua. The setup with that might be just what you are looking for.

[elusive_fish]

i seen exact same set up in thailand siam paragon mall

awesome, takes socialising away though:D\

My cafe is about 80sqm seating inside... the tank will only take up a sixth of that.

[elusive_fish]

thats a really good idea avoids messy silicone on the sides of the tank and can be built cheaply from perspex which you can cut and bend yourself could also be painted black or covered with a thin layer of poly cemented to match your wall

So how high is the overflow? The total tank height is 60cm.

So how would the water return be done?

[elusive_fish]

Check out the marine tank in Wonderworld Rotorua. The setup with that might be just what you are looking for.

That would be nice. It's unfortunately not an easy idea being located in christchurch

[elusive_fish]

I do want to learn more about sumps, but the time it will take me to research the whole thing and come up with a solid design myself is time I unfortunately dont have. It would be a HUGE help to me getting this project done if the experienced people on here drew up a design for me, with dimensions. Spoons drawings have been a huge help, but im such a noob to this whole thing that I still cant entirely tell what im looking at :oops:

An older guy down here gave me a decent price on building the main tank, but he doesnt seem to know anything about sumps either. If I could just give him a design to build im sure he would hapily do it.

Would the actual plumbing be simple enough for a below average handyman like me to complete?

Thanks all for your help!

[spoon]

ok the top of the overflow mentioned before looks like this http://www.coralculture.co.uk/shop/prod ... cts_id=752 its to stop big pieces of crud getting in there and blocking your plumbing up it also stops fish going in there annd sets the level of water in the main tank so if your tank is 60cm tall (lets just say inside measurements for ease) you could make the overflow out of a piece of 60cm high perspex but cut the slits 3-4cm deep so that the water level in the tank wont go below 56cm the 3cm difference is for safety really like say you end up having a wicked flow thru the sump with a big meaty pump the depth of the water might be 2cm above the lowest point of the slits just to handle the flow . i wouldnt worry too much about putting together the plumbing side of things once you have a plan its the simple part

[carznkats]

Have you had a look at DavidR's thread on sump for his 1400L in technical? That may give you more info, also check out his fishroom thread link in his signature.

I have a sump for my marine tank, Tim from insideoceans made my tank set up for me so you could try giving him a pm. I have my main tank drilled at the bottom which I think makes it look cleaner.

[elusive_fish]

Having my tank come out from the wall like a peninsula would mean that both my overflow and return pipe(s) would be at the same end. Would this mean i just end up recycling a lot of the same water? Id imagine this would pick up virtually none of the crud in the tank. I guess this means I just have to find where it accumulates and vacuum regularly?

[diver21]

you could run the outlet in along the bottom of the tank or drill a hole in the base of the tank and have the outlet come in that way (up a pipe so it dosent shoot your substrate everywhere)

[elusive_fish]

you could run the outlet in along the bottom of the tank or drill a hole in the base of the tank and have the outlet come in that way (up a pipe so it dosent shoot your substrate everywhere)

This is probably a dumb question...

If the power failed, wouldnt a hole in the bottom allow all the water to syphon back into the sump and out into the cafe?

[diver21]

not if you made the tube go all the way to the top, and then the only problem would be if the silicone failed. but that shouldnt be too much of a worry as theres silicone everywhere

[David R]

I do want to learn more about sumps, but the time it will take me to research the whole thing and come up with a solid design myself is time I unfortunately dont have. It would be a HUGE help to me getting this project done if the experienced people on here drew up a design for me, with dimensions. Spoons drawings have been a huge help, but im such a noob to this whole thing that I still cant entirely tell what im looking at :oops:

An older guy down here gave me a decent price on building the main tank, but he doesnt seem to know anything about sumps either. If I could just give him a design to build im sure he would hapily do it.

Would the actual plumbing be simple enough for a below average handyman like me to complete?

Honestly, if you're got a hacksaw and can make measurements to a reasonable degree of accuracy, its so easy to do the plumbing you'll wonder what the fuss was about, I actually find it fun! I'm sure there are people in Christchurch who have done it before and would be glad to help in exchange for a free coffee.

With the return, I'd suggest drilling another hole in the bottom of the tank next to the overflow and running it up through there, along the length of the tank inside the hood, and have it coming out at the far end. Has the tank been built yet?

Rather than doing the perspex thing and cutting slits, I'd suggest using tinted glass for the overflow (its usually cheaper too) and getting some overflow comb from the LFS to silicone on. That way you can easily remove it for cleaning. I've never actually run anything on my overflows, and the only fish I've had go over were eels (fire and tyre track) and small tetras. In my 6' I siliconed a piece of glass in just above the water level so the gap is only about 10mm for the water, too small for any of my fish to go over, except for my tyre track who some how managed to squeeze through.

[elusive_fish]

The tank hasnt been built yet. After adding up how much the total project will cost my only hope is to do some of the work myself. If I can get the tank made with the correct holes, I can probably find and old tank on trademe for the sump and try and convince some of the fine local fish people to give me a hand.

I just need to know what holes to have made into the tank, in what size and location. If anyone can take pity on me and suggest a design...

[David R]

Size of the holes will depend on the size of the pump, I use 40mm waste for my plumbing, and 32mm RXP bulkheads. I've only got one on my 6' tank but two on my new 8'. You need to decide how much turn-over you'll have through the tank and go from there. The overflows need to be big enough to handle the flow, and the sump needs enough space so that when the power goes off it doesn't overflow. DIYing the sump with an old tank could save a bit of money, and the guys building the main tank should be able to help with the sizes of the holes etc.

[elusive_fish]

Size of the holes will depend on the size of the pump, I use 40mm waste for my plumbing, and 32mm RXP bulkheads. I've only got one on my 6' tank but two on my new 8'. You need to decide how much turn-over you'll have through the tank and go from there. The overflows need to be big enough to handle the flow, and the sump needs enough space so that when the power goes off it doesn't overflow. DIYing the sump with an old tank could save a bit of money, and the guys building the main tank should be able to help with the sizes of the holes etc.

One of the guys who I've been talking to about building the tank doesnt seem to know anything about sumps and plumbing. This made me nervous, but he does own a company that does this kind of thing. he's an old guy - are sumps are newish thing? He's happy to make anything I tell him to, but he's obviously not going to be able to help with the design.

What would you do hole size wise for a tank of my dimensions/size? Its probably not too disimilar to your 8ft (nominal size of 966 litres)