livebearer_breeder Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Alright, i didnt think it was fair, to take up ben's post, plus it was on a totally different subject, so ive started my own. I have a few times recently, thought about starting a marine tank, but have not really got the help needed. nevertheless i have done a bit of research, and then thanks to Mark came across http://www.nano-reef.com, the poeple there have been extremly helpful, some even have similiar set ups, as what i would like. This is what i have : i can either use a 60l or 100l tank each are not set up but have all the gear to set them up, heater, filter lights. now there is some stuff i dont understand, how and what is a skimmer and would i need one, because the people at nano-reef suggest that all i need is a powerhead, heater, live sand and live corals rocks etc for natural filteration, the powerhead woud be for circulation. I think this is too simple it must be alot more complicated! I would like to start just with live plants (corals etc) before i even think of fish. What else do i need to purchase? I relise that with a smaller Reef tank, the maintenince is higher, but that is no problem for me, i am more than happy to put in alot of work continously, if it means i can have my own nano-reef. Where do i get the Instant salt solutions from? I think i might have seen something like this at hutt pet centre? What sort of costs am i looking at? also what would be cheap, hardy, starter fish to get? Cheers Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Starting your own nano-reef Setting up your own nano reef can be quite simple and is almost the same as a traditionally sized reef. This article will go over the basics of setting up a nano reef, as well as the equipment that is necessary. To start, you will need to pick out the aquarium you would like to use. Three good starter sizes are the standard 10 gallon, 15 gallon, or 20 gallon aquariums. Next, you will need to decide on the lighting system you want to use. Powercompact retrofit kits and canopies are highly recommended. These powercompact lamps will provide your nano reef with plenty of light for many types of corals. For the heater, we only recommend using a 50w or 75w Ebo Jager heater, as these are the only heater we have had success with in such a small aquarium. Lastly, you will need a small powerhead pump for circulation. We have found Marineland's Penguin powerhead 550 to be quiet and reliable, but all other similarly sized pumps will work. For your filtration it's recommended to use an all natural method. Good quality live rock and live sand are the key to a successful system. You will want to use at least one pound of live rock per gallon, and about one-half pounds of live sand per gallon. More information on this can be found in the filtration article. When you look for a location to place your nano reef, you will want to keep a few things in mind. The tank should be placed on a level and sturdy surface, that can support approximately 70-250 pounds depending on the size of the tank. You will also want to place it in a high traffic area where it will be seen often, so you do not forget to feed it or do maintenance work when necessary. When the time comes to fill the tank and get it running, you will need to have purchased a good synthetic salt and a specific gravity meter. Fill the tank with water and add salt until the s.p. is 1.023. Place the powerhead in immediately so it will help mix the salt. Now is also the time to place in your heater and get the water temperature to 78 degrees. Once your s.g. has reached it's proper level, you can add the live rock and live sand. Place the live rock in first, using an open pattern so the fish have room to swim through and hide in the rock. Be as creative as you want during this process and don't be afraid to go back and change it later. Once the rock is where you like it, you can pour the live sand around the rocks, keeping it at a fairly even thickness throughout the tank. Next comes your livestock! Please see our Nano Reef Critters article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Mark uses natural sea water, its free, i believe he just collected about 400L, why not ask him would save a few $$$$$ no need for salt mix... more important to know where you will find the water to add due to evaporation, as in a nano, even small evap changes salinity quickly. This evaporation makeup water needs to be as near pure h2o as you can get. best is Reverse osmosis then de inoinsation...... maybe again someone who has RO/DI unit could fill a 25L coantainer for you for a few $ as you will be startinmg with just sand/rock etc skimmer will not be that necessary until you add the fish IMHO and that is prob about 2-3 months out from the day you put rock/sand in...... go foe it, rock/sand is hard to kill make sure you get a few handfulls of "live" sand from someones tank and live rock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 best is Reverse osmosis then de inoinsation...... maybe again someone who has RO/DI unit could fill a 25L coantainer for you for a few $ didnt quite understand that, im not up with the saltwater forum lingo? I didnt realise that i could just take water from the sea?? shows how much i no on the subject :roll: agreed fish is a long way down the track. heres a guy i was talking who has a 2 foot marine tank running succesfully http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44477 this guys 2 foot is impressive! http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44477 Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 this is the point while the setup is small, all the saltwater issues are still there, lots to read here on natural seawater vs mix, suffice to say there are different opinions. That is why i suggests nano + mentor = success....... probably best if the mentor was independant of the sales process i.e. was not trying to flog you bits and pieces to make your nano work....... all this talk about nano makes me look at that small tank in the corner of the room with glint in eye....... but i have bigger fish to fry. why don't you get small tank, powerhead, heater, etc setup with natural seawater (buy a big 25L container somewhere in WGTN for collecting seawater) borrow a few more off someone for the initial collection and tank fill.... sort out your pure h2o evap makeup water source. get it filled up to temp, circulation, lighting etc..... add sand, add rock and wait....., sooner you do it the sooner the 2 months will have passed before you can add anything! if you have everything only cost is sand/rock..... live rock = about $10 ish per kg, sand only available in dead bags, but a handfull of gunk from some local tank will help big time. while these threads are good to look at, I would personally treat the first 6-12 months as a experiment, learn the technology, terminalogy etc first... then make it look good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Shae - Come over one night and have a chat if your serious about it. It can be done but be prepared to take it seriously and do some hard work (maintenance) to keep it running. smaller tanks don't settle the same so you will probably have to do an hour or 2 a day 2-3 days a week. if you want to do this, then I think you can make it happen. DIY can save you some money, but there are things you can't skimp on (test kits, water quality, rock etc). Good luck, just because its small doesn't mean its not doable. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 viva i nani very doable not much specialized nano equiptment in nz though, so its better to adapt other things that have the same purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Just a point about nanos, it can be done, and it is cheaper, but they can be a hassle. Reason I say this is I once had a 60L nano. The problem is that most of the corals etc you put in very quickly outgrow this size tank. A lot of corals cannot touch each other or even be too close, or they will try to poison each other. It just became a constant problem trying to keep stuff apart. If your choice is 60 or 100 litre, go with the 100. However, you will probably eventually tire of that and go bigger anyway. To equipment, filtration is a whole lot different in saltwater aquaria. Don't use external filters or undergravel or anything like that. You just need 1 1/4 lbs liverock per gallon of water, and powerheads for circulation. The circulation should be around 20 times the volume of your tank per hour, the bacteria in the liverock filter the water. Going without a skimmer is possible, but not such a good idea. To learn more about protein skimmers, do a search on google. You will also need more lighting than a typical fw tank, and will need to investigate some form of phosphate control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 the following is a small list i started to write for myself when i was learning that you may find usefull Reef Jargon & acronyms RO reverse osmosis (almost pure water made possible with a ro water filter) DI De-ionized (this is an additional unit in a RO water filter and de-ionizes the water) DSB deep sand bed (this is in reference to the bottom of your tank) NSW natural salt water (collected from the ocean) ASW Artificial salt water (made from a salt mix brought from your lfs) note when water is evaporated from salt some trace elements and water characteristics are not retained for this reason when making asw it is essential to use the expensive stuff for reef tanks LR live rock porous rock from the ocean with a lot of surface area for bacteria and various organisms to live on/in FO fish only FOWLR fish only with live rock VHO very high output fluorescent lighting MH metal halide lighting Coral type of animal that in most cases exists through a symbiotic relationship with zooxanthellae algae cousins to the annenome anemone type of animal with the same symbiotic relationship as corals not sure what the exact defining difference is but anemone's have a foot that can allow it to move Skimming a type of filtration that uses fine bubbles to pull proteins out of the water before they brake down into ammonia. good luck daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Shae - Come over one night and have a chat if your serious about it. It can be done but be prepared to take it seriously and do some hard work (maintenance) to keep it running. smaller tanks don't settle the same so you will probably have to do an hour or 2 a day 2-3 days a week. if you want to do this, then I think you can make it happen. DIY can save you some money, but there are things you can't skimp on (test kits, water quality, rock etc). Good luck, just because its small doesn't mean its not doable. Pie im very serious, and maintenance is not a problem, would love to come chat. at this point in time im thinking more like some cool shrimp, corals, mushrooms, anenomes, worms, pritty much anything just not fish. ill need to put this on hold for a week now, just had a load of killies arrive, and have taken up tanks space. as soon as i sell my Breeding pair of Blue Ram i will be starting, there my only hold up right now. Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 One thing you could do is take that 100L main tank and run a huge sump/refugium. 100L isn't a nano really, it's just small. But if you've got a convenient way to run something like a 200L remote sump with a refugium in it you won't really spend that much more but you'll have triple the water volume and I guess it'd work out to the tank being 3 times as stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 hmmm.... what about a 60l for the nano-reef, and a 130l for a sump? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 near 200L is probably a little big for most people to consider it a nano tank....... but go for it, don't let definitions stand in your way increased water volume is a buffer only, still need rock or skimmer to remove waste. the 130L in the sump is 10x more usefull to you if it has 50kg of live rock in it! ( its only 80L of water then anyway) Question do you want a nano because Its small therefore it may cost less you only have a small space available you have a small tank already..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 The 130l is an old 3 foot, that i patched up after if got a couple of big cracks in it. have been useing it for a little while but, just decided i didnt trust it that much, so decomisioned it. I have killies in the 100l now, so will have to use the 60l. I could get it started this weekend, if i manage to get the beach? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 yucky southerly i would not collect this weekend, you just get very stirred up looking water, and this rain not usefyull either..... but get everything else together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 What sort of money am i looking at now? to setup a sump i mean? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 For a very basic sump, not too much. Umm, dunno how much it'd cost to set up the overflow, $20-30ish then $10-20 for having a hole drilled in the bottom? The sump would obviously depend on size, I got my sump that's 500X500X1100(Or was it 400X400?) for I think it was $130 with 3 partitions. Add a few bucks for having a few holes drilled in it if you want them...Say $150 not including pumps shouldn't be too unreasonable to buy the whole sump. Since you've already got the tank, make it $50ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 where would i have to get the holes drilled? Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 I just use a 100L plastic box for my main tank sump..... I got a 20 x 25L ones for $4 each from building depot when they shut down. a 25L plastic bin be fine for your nano smaller ehiem for a return pump... look on trademe..... drill the hole in the side/bottom of your existing tank $10 maybe less pies has a contact...... small piece of glass for overflow and if desparate use an actual plastic comb as a comb! sump $5-10 holes $10 glass $5 comb $2 shop done mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 som1 gonna have to explain how this is gonna work, cuz i dont know how to set it up? will i have to drill holes into the nano? or is there some way that i can do it differently, cuz i dont mined drilling holes into the 130l but not the 60l. Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 take pies up on his offer, his tank is at the perfect stage for you to see what yours should be set up like. its the exact same idea on a smaller scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Yeah i might see if i can get round to his place this weekend, my problem is how far away he lives. Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicks Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Check out the Marine Aquarium Magazine april/may 2004 (pies might have it or I can photo copy and post ) great article on Nano,s. If you research it well cannot see it being a problem, just basic reef keeping on a small scale. Give it a go Nicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Cool that would be great thanks, i will have to ask mark. Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 I would be keen to learn more about the sump idea too as my system is still only new and small. 75l with a skimmer then into trickle filter. Doesnt a sump greatly improve your fish capacity for a small system? anyone have some pictures or know a link to look it up? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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