Kermit Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Well I've been looking into seting up a new system 7-8ft long 4ft wide 2ft deep. Now i went onto the www.garf.org site and used there site to calculate the glass thickness, and they suggest glass 3/8 thick (10mm). Hmmm seems on the lite side to me, so i spoke to a guy that had a 3m long by 800mm wide/deep tank and he said it was made of 10mm tuthened glass and had no brob's. Ok sounds like Garf were right, or are they?, as a guy i spoke to today said don't invite me around to sit infront of it, as it might explode. So what do the people on this site think as there's obveously a differing opinions on what thickness of glass that should be used. Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Will be ok with 12mm as the tank is not that high., but 15mm should have a much better safety factor. Maybe use 12mm and get a 15mm base. Nice size tank, is it going to be a reef tank?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 10 mm gets you about a 2.4 safety factor, 12 mm a 3.4 and 15mm a 5.4 So, 15mm is WAY excessive. And I'd guess you'd spend 3-4X as much on glass as for the 12mm which would probably be a few times as much as 10mm. Of course, if cost is not object... That's according to Warren's glass thickness calculator, BTW. Oh and that guys 3mX800m tall tank at 10mm, I hope that glass is a lot stronger than normal 10mm glass because it's coming up with a 1.013 safety factor. A stray current hitting the glass might break it with that little of a safety factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 10 will be fine, 12 would be ideal. Its the width vs. the height thats imported, not the length. If you can find 12mm cheap use it, but I think you should be able to sleep easy with 10mm. Something the calculators don't take into account is the fact that they are calculated on the tank being fill to the very top, so if you know (in my case 5cm) how high the water line will be, calculate it at that, this will increase the safter factor and help you sleep easy. A thicker base would be a good idea (12mm will be fine). Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Cheers guy's. I think i'll go with the 12mm if not to pricy. Yip sure will be a reef tank, only had my 4ft for 9 months and totally addicted, wife gives me a hard time but she enjoy's sitting down and watching the fish and corals move. cheers again. Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 On the topic of glass and new tanks... Has anyone found any info on low iron glass availability in New Zealand? Pies did you investigate this for your tank? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Yes I investigated it & found it. 3 problems: 1. Its VERY expensive (the cost of the glass at wholesale price *no markup* to do the front and one side was going to cost more than what I paid for the entire tank and cabinet) 2. Its only available up to 10mm here in NZ 3. 10mm Ironfree has the same saftey factor as 8mm float The price made it prohibitive for me anyway however even if I wanted it, because I was planing a large tank, the saftey factor would have been far to low. Shallow tanks and small tanks will be fine, but again, its VERY expensive when compared. I looked at Acrylic quite seriously too, but ultimatley a deep tank with a sandbed would never have worked out. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Yeah. I don't want acrylic. Looks like the low iron glass may be a no go. But I might check it out incase things have changed. (unlikely but worth a try) Did you ever get to see the difference in clarity in person? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Low iron glass is available in 12mm as i have it on my tank. SGG Diamant® is just one of the options for the use of flat glass in furniture manufacturing. - SGG Diamant® transmits up to 92% of visible light, depending on thickness. - SGG Diamant® is a high quality clear float glass with exceptional clarity and high light transmission. Often called "low-iron" or "extra white" because it does not have the dark green tint characteristic of ordinary clear float glass when viewed from the edge. - SGG Diamant® can be used single- or double-glazed. Especially suitable in applications where high visual clarity and minimal color distortion is required such as display cabinets, shop fronts, in banks, or public buildings. SGG Diamant® is also used in solar panels. Ideal in security glazing when thick laminated constructions are required. Features and Benefits - Exceptionally high light transmittance gives clear and undistorted vision and maximizes natural daylight. It minimizes the barrier between the interior and exterior environment and between items on display and the observer. - Prevents color distortion. - Optimizes solar gain in solar panels. - Can be laminated to provide safety, security and added acoustic performance as well as to stop fading of paintings, fabrics and furnishings by ultra-violet radiation. - Can be tempered for safety performance and to improve physical and thermal strength. - Can be curved to achieve exciting design effects. - Can be incorporated in double-glazed units to provide multi-functional glazing including solar control, thermal insulation, acoustic insulation, safety and security glazing. NOTE: This glass is not totally colorless and a light green tint will become more apparent when viewed in larger pieces against a dark background SGG Diamant® Stocked Dimensions Thickness Maximum Size 6mm - 1/4" 78 3/4" x 126" 10mm - 3/8" 78 3/4" x 126" 12mm - 1/2" 78 3/4" x 126" 19mm - 3/4" 78 3/4" x 126" The photo above shows both SGG Diamant® and ordinary clear glass . The glass on the bottom is ordinary transparent glass. Note the green edge. The glass on top is SGG Diamant®. Note the clearer edges as compared to the greener edges of regular glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 I went to 3 different glass people (Port Nicholoson Glass, Capital Glass & Wellington Glass Specialists), got the same story from each of them. Any idea what the cost is of the 12mm & 19mm m2? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Well i priced the glass today. I priced the tank originally for 10mm with 12mm base about a month ago, came to total of $1260 incl, pollished edges. Today's price for 12mm and 15mm base total cost $2250 incl, pollished edges, that's a $990 increase for an extra 2mm of glass, o'well gotta be done. I also looked into the low iron glass and they can only go uptop 10mm aswell, didn't bother with the price as i wont be using it. Pies, your tank must have cost a simular price a? Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 I really think your tank will be fine in 10mm glass with a thicker base. Is that price for new or 2nd hand glass? Things to consider: Glass doesn't age (people may debate this, but it doesn't get brittle or anything silly like that), certainly not an issue for our liftime. So 2nd hand glass can greatly reduce the price. If you can't find good condition 2nd hand glass, remember typically setups are only seen from the front and both sides (1 side in my case). So you can use manky glass for the back, sides (maybee) and bottom. Insted of buying 15mm glass for the base (ouch!!!) I used 10mm and 12mm laminated together. I wanted 15mm+ base for the bottom, so it was far cheaper to lamiante to together than use 1 thicker base. Also much stronger and less prone to problems. Polished edges are nice, but why polish edges for glass you can't see (the bottom, back and rear). If you want polished edges, just get the edges you are going to see done. If its a reef tank you probably want holes drilled it in. Expect to pay $20+ for each hole. As for the price of my tank, I got a very good deal compared to the prices you have stated. Tank size. Before you rush off think about everything. Why 4 feet wide? Why not a little wider than 4 feet? That way you can run 4ft fluro bulbs front to back. My tank is just over 3 feet wide for this reason. Its going to be VERY difficult to get to the back of such a wide tank, and 2 feet is quite deep. You will need some sort of technology to reach into the back of it. Mine is pushing the limits of how much I can stretch my body from a step ladder as it is As I said, all of the glass shops I visited couldn't source iron free glass in thicker than 10mm, and its weaker, so far to dangerous for my purposes. Good luck, AWESOME project. Thats a LOT of water! Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Alois, where did you get the dimante glass from. The starfire branded stuff only goes to 10mm? Is it still available in Auck? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Cheers for the input pies some good statements regarding second hand glass. My tank is going to be an island peice so you will veiw all sides but will look into the second hand glass for the base as your wright in saying it's a lot of money's for something your not going to see. Also i have a six and half year old son, as most people know it's the main ingrediant for a desaster so i think i'm best to be safe then sorry in the thickness. As for the water i calculated 1430L in main tank and 490L in the sump a nice total of 1920L, scary even talking about it. regards Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Similar specs to mine, my sump is over 700 litres though. If you going to do the island thing (viewable from all 4 sides, AWESOME!). Its going to be hard to aquascape it (you don't want rock to close to the side glass as you won't be able to clean it). Drill holes and have the overflow in the center. Lots of links on RC about it. It can have a cool effect and 4 feet is certainly wide enough to create a great effect. AWESOME. Pics! Have you started yet? Pics! Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 http://www.pakglass.co.nz/product_range ... e_low_iron http://www.metroglass.co.nz/009.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Polished edges are nice, but why polish edges for glass you can't see (the bottom, back and rear). If you want polished edges, just get the edges you are going to see done. There's a good reason for polished edges on big tanks. The edges are all dead square and parallel. It's very important to get the thinest glue joint on a big tank to increase the strength. A glue joint weakens by a square law with thickness. A normal 'cut' glass edge is irregular and the glue has to be thicker and is not uniform. It all adds up to a weaker joint. Also, you're not going to accidentally get a single point load due to an irregular part of the cut glass touching the face of another panel. As Pies states, you could have gotten away with 10mm for the sides and 12mm for the base. At least you'll have a bulletproof tank with the glass you've gone with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Glasstec in chch has starfire 10mm glass for around $330m2. I would use 10mm sides and 12mm base. The thicker glass will cost you more as you have found out, but will have a higher saftey factor. One option could be finding offcuts from glass companys as you will get a better rate. I have got large pieces this way before for a great price. I can drill holes for you if you like. (i don't break the glass that offen ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 As for the water i calculated 1430L in main tank and 490L in the sump a nice total of 1920L, scary even talking about it. That is a big tank, hope you have a $20k plus budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 ok hope this works. The image is of my plans for the tank and sump. The top image is the main tank and the bottom the sump/refrigium. Sump being 6ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft refrigium being 4ft x 1.5ft x 1.5 ft. Sorry pies no pic's yet as still in the planning stages, very simular to yours yes even to the extent of steel frame stand with rimu cladding, which i decided ages ago before seeing yours. Will be running 6 x 150watt MH (electronic ballasts, so small and lite weight compared to choke ballasts and not that much more) 6 x 4ft Actinics, at least two closed loop systems about 6k+ L/hr each, sump pumping at least 6k+ L/hr, live rock filter, calcium reactor, Protein skimmer, bluh bluh bluh and wait there's more if you call now i'll through in a Ginsu knife. (just for you chimera ) reason for two tanks in bottom is to try and spread the weight evenly as there will be a beam in the center. Why so many lights? well as its a wide tank i feel three lamps down the center wont cut the mustard and don't wont to use Fluro's. Hmmmm have i covered everything? hmmm i guess i'll have to wait and find out. TM must catch up and talk. Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Whats the deal with these pictures man??? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 That is a big tank, hope you have a $20k plus budget. couldn't agree more!!! picture aint working coz there is a space in the filename. try putting %20 instead of the space, like this: Not quite sure how your returns are working, they coming in from the bottom or top of tank? Would highly recommend top for return! Especially if sump has reasonable head to pump up, it would then have to battle against the water above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 some advice. I tried electronic ballast, they were not that good as they drove the lamps too hard and caused problems with my aquarium computer etc. The lamps were driven so hard that the 14k bulbs went white, Digital ballast are better. Get some Tunze streams, you wont regrete it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Who needs a budget just don't tell the wife . I'm pretty patient so i'm happy to stock it over a period of time, just like your moto chimera nothing happens fast..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hmmm, Everything I've read says that electronic ballasts UNDERDRIVE the lamps. So they produce less light than a magnetic ballast and last a little longer than a magnetic ballast. Not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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