Scarlet Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 In the (very, very) long term I am planning to set up a largish (around 3 ft) tank with angels and a few corys, or something similar as a cleanup crew. I would be very greatful for any advice on an efficient, and cost-effective method of filtration (that also wouldn't be too visible in the tank itself) so that I can start saving up for it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I find that external canister filters are great for that. range from around $100 - $400. I personally like using fluval filters and the one that you will need would be the Fluval 304 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted November 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Ok, so how much would that set me back? (I am thinking I may need to start looking for a summer job, lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I think the 304 would be around $250 I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I still find nothing wrong with undergravel filters. They are under $20 plus the cost of a pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke* Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I think hang on the back filters are the best way to go. About half the cost of external cannister filters, are really easy to clean, and do just as good a job. For a 3ft tank I recommend an AquaClear 300 (I think they're branded AquaOne's now). You ideally want a filter that pumps 5X the water volume in one hour. [Water volume is calculated by multiplying widthXheightXlength of your tank and dividing by 1000 to get litres, divide again by 4 to roughly get the volume in US gallons.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I have just purchased a "milenium 3000" for my turtle tank that holds 120l. It pumps 1100l per hour (remember this figure is at 0 head height with no media so if it has to pull the water up a little and through media you lose some flow my actual flow is about 850-900l measured amount per hour) cost was $80 and is brilliant it has cleared up the water amazingly and would definatly recomend one, the only con with using it for a turtle tank is that the turtle tank is only half full with water so the water comming out of the filter has about 200mm to drop before hitting the water so we get a loud running water noise in our lounge (but this wouldnt be the case with a fish tank as the water level is near the top good luck Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke* Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Just to clarify Scarlet, the millennium dan is talking about is a hang on the back type filter like the Aqua Clear/Ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 yeah sorry forgot to include that part :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 The amount of filtation you get is directly related to the amount of surface area in your filter media, the water flow of course must be correct for the volume of media. (There are other factors like the amount of air, but you need to go to complicated trickle filters to benefit from this) Compare the amount a media (sponge, bios balls, gravel, etc) between hang on the back, cannister, and UGF filters. IMHO:- For a tank this size a hang on the back filter would only just be okay if the tank was well balanced and had lowish bio load. But give you very little flexibilty for adding media, carbon, etc, etc. UGF have good have good surface area but again no flexibilty, are no good if you plan on growing plants (their roots don't like water going through them). Must be cleaned (usually after a year or so) or you risk 'toxic tank syndrome' due to crap clogging the gravel under rocks etc Cannister filters have good surface area, the best flexibilty for adding changing media, carbon etc, can be unplugged and cleaned away from the tank so your not carrying dripping sponges etc over you tank and carpet. Check out www.trademe.co.nz there are always cannister filters for sale at less than $100, a fluval 204 or larger would be fine. I have run 204's in 3 foot tanks for long periods with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 hang on back filter is the same (almost) as a trickle filter/wet dry filter because the water flows through the media and the media absobs water at a higher level than the water there is a much greater surface area allowing beneficial bacteria to multiply at a greater rate than any other filter medium this is why they are so good the best filter i ever ran was a canister filter that then flowed into a breeding trap (i used this simply because it was cheep available and let water trickle out slowely through the bottom) filled with bio balls and I find me milenium 3000 works just as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Agreed in principal, but I have seen very few hang on filters that actually do this well, to get proper trickle/wet dry the filter media has to be in the air with water running over/through it, ie. not immersed in the water, just as Dan has done with his breeding trap. If it is in the water it is no different from a canister filter but with less flexibility and a far smaller surface area. Other things to note, hang on filters tend to be noisy if you don’t keep your water level very high, and they get in the way of light hoods and glass tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Other things to note, hang on filters tend to be noisy if you don’t keep your water level very high, Second that it is in my turtle tank that is only half full with water man is it loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 I ran an ugf for several years without ever having to clean it out (certainly not yearly!) and had good healthy plant growth over it too. If the substrate is deep enough the plants don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Be interested to know how deep your gravel was? I have run tanks with UGF and 6-7cm gravel and only been able to grow easy plants like vals and indian ferns. The problems with UGF and toxic tank is pretty well documented on the net, and there are lots of varibles that would change length of time before or even if the problem occures, the yearly clean is just a general rule of thumb, I'm sure that in the past when canister filters weren't commonly used many people ran systems for years (and still do) with no problems but the risk increases as more time passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 The gravel would have been 5 - 6cm I guess. Current tank is only about 4cm deep. Have grown a variety of plants with no problems. Never had a tank go toxic either. I recommend them as a cheap way to get started in the hobby rather than forking out big $$ for external canisters and the like. I like the hang on type too and run a couple of AquaClear 500's, one over 10 years old and still going well. I also have 2 Fluval 404's and an Eheim wet/dry on other tanks plus run a couple of Shark internals for use in an emergency if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Yeah, I sort of agree regarding cheap starting, the difficultly is knowing where to draw the line between making a cheap start and spending money on things that end up being upgraded in six months anyway. I have a number of small tanks, air pumps, UGF plates, hang on filters etc etc, that are now just a waste of money because my interest in the hobby out grew them. But I guess there are plenty of people (you can see most of them on trademe!) who invested huge money in big tanks and good gear before realizing they didn't like fish keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 makes it all better for us that need the good gear at a good price :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 I find that external canister filters are great for that. range from around $100 - $400. I personally like using fluval filters and the one that you will need would be the Fluval 304 agreed, i personally like the FLuval external canister filters! but you would not need a fluval 304, you would only need and fluval 204! i ran all my 3 foot tanks on fluval 204 external canister filters and you can get them for between $150-$200! Shae 2504 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted November 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 Wow, so much advice! Thank you I really like the sound of external filters (especially because they can be hidden out of sight- not too keen on the look of the cannister shark filters and the like). Am going to look for a good bargain on an external second-hand, but I may just start with a cannister one- UGF seem a little bit complicated for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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