Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 One of my tanks has a very weird (totally disgusting) problem that I discovered recently in the substrate and the filter: The tank is approx 40L (Aqua One 418) tank with 10 cardinals and 2 ottos. It has been set up for 3 months. It is densely planted so that no substrate is visible. There is a Fluval 204 canister filter and the tank is at 24 degrees. Lights are on 10 hours a day. I feed once daily, thawed brine shrimp, or flake, or frozen tropical tucker or sometimes frozen bloodworms. I feed only as much as the cardinals can eat and very slowly so that none falls into the plants to rot. The ottos get a piece of fresh veg studded with bits of algae wafers every second or third day. Three weeks ago I noticed: 1. Almost complete lack of flow from the filter 2. A funny rotting mouldy smell 3. Little (1cm) tubular brown things along the hairgrass stems 4. Normal clear water and happy fish I was really grossed out and began a half day cleaning process. The filter was full of slimy brown sludge (well, not full, but it was adhering to all the surfaces and clogging the tubes). I noticed that the sponges had dozens of the brown tubular things as well and when I probed one a small red worm came out (in the top photo the blob next to the worm is the tubular casing it came from, bent around on itself). I realised that cleaning would be near impossible with the plants. I figured it could be an abundance of nutrients so carried out water changes every 4th day, fed every second or third day and am even more careful when feeding (but I really, really always have been very careful not to overfeed). My other tanks do not have this problem yet they have the exact same diet. Three weeks later (today) I noticed the filter is slowing down again! So I got the filter all out on the patio and hosed it out. Still more worms and I just decided to hose out the noodles too, a lot of worms came out and then I found this on the grass under the basket I was hosing out: I am not 100% sure that it didn't come from the lawn, but I really don't think it did. It is flat on one side, much like a fluke, and I put it in a jar of water and it is still alive several hours later. Also the small ones I captured are alive in the jar too. They are all red...and they are grosing me out! Any idea what these are? Aside from tearing down the tank and starting over, any ideas what I can do to get rid of them? Really hate worms...eww *looking for the vomit emoticon* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/flatworm.htm NZ Flatworm, from garden Maybe?? They eat earthworms and live under rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 looks like a type of flatworm but im not an expert on worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.u ... ralian.htm Looks more like Australian flatworm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymox Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Eww! I have had, lately, bloodworms, well mosquito larvae thriving and hatching in my tank (ones without fighters), but they have never grown to that size. That hook makes them look kinda parasitic too Im very very interested to see what these are, Talking with a lps owner the other day he was telling me about a species of worm that acually helps tanks with ugf, as they further break down rotting food and poo. And as poor as my memory serves me I think it was some kind of australian worm. While we are on the topic of worms, potentially is there much harm to be done from fish eating local live bloodworms or mozzies? I really couldnt control it if I tried, aside from netting my tanks, but my fish love the hunt for the fresh mozzie or newly hatch larvae, and NZ is reletively free of disease as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I noticed that the sponges had dozens of the brown tubular things as well and when I probed one a small red worm came out (in the top photo the blob next to the worm is the tubular casing it came from, bent around on itself). Sounds like a smooth-cased caddisfly larvae?? Google and see if they look the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Sounds like a smooth-cased caddisfly larvae?? Google and see if they look the same... http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/AbtCit/ei/ ... olinga.asp Try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/flatworm_australian.htm Looks more like Australian flatworm Yes!! The big one looks just like that, the underside is paler. I am guessing that maybe it didn't come from the filter and just popped up out of the grass and somehow is still alive in the jar of water now. Still though, I KNOW there are worms in the filter and they are amll and red, so small it is difficult to see if they resemble the large worm...although thinking about it, they seemed slightly segmented, but not like a tapeworm.... any idea what those are?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Sounds like a smooth-cased caddisfly larvae?? Google and see if they look the same.. http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/AbtCit/ei/ ... olinga.asp Try that. Unless I have missed something, I don't think they are those, the cases don't appear to have a head and the worm that comes out is small, red and very wriggly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I think the top photo looks like a tubifex-type worm. The bottom one is a flatworm. I really wouldn't worry. There are so many small invertebrates in aquaria that people don't know are there. The vast majority are harmless. As Nymox said, they are there because there is food, and the food is fish/plant waste. That makes them useful. A lot of people freak at finding unexpected critters. Remember, the aquarium is not and never will (or should!) be a sterile environment. Yes, fish eat mosquito larvae and almost any other critter that lives on, in or near water. If it doesn't taste good, they spit it out. They didn't spend a couple of billion years of evolution eating Wardley fish flakes You will probably never see a parasite off a fish. They live inside and release eggs to the outside world. Seriously, just see these things and say 'hey, I am doing a good job, my aquarium actually supports life!' 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymox Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Id watch the worms closely, see if they are a larvae for something else, or that is their final form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I think the top photo looks like a tubifex-type worm. The bottom one is a flatworm. I really wouldn't worry. There are so many small invertebrates in aquaria that people don't know are there. The vast majority are harmless. As Nymox said, they are there because there is food, and the food is fish/plant waste. That makes them useful. Well then, I guess I am happy to just let them be, however something is making the water smell very bad and the filter tubes keep getting completely clogged. I seriously cannot see what could be clogging it up but the filter sponges had thousands of those worm cases in there both times I cleaned them out. I wonder if they are rotting and smelling up the place? I would like to find a solution for the lack of flow so I don't have to keep dissassembling the filter every 3 weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Id watch the worms closely, see if they are a larvae for something else, or that is their final form. This has been going on for at least a month and I haven't seen anything else around so far, aside from the large red worm that mysteriously happened to come up just below the basket I was rinsing, but nowhere else on the flooded lawn.... I will keep my eye on it though. BTW, I don't normally rinse things on the lawn, but I just was so grossed out I didn't want to do it in the house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 You really shouldn't have to clean out the filter that frequently. The bacterial colonies are the main 'filtration' component, and they like to be undisturbed. Doing it that regularly won't let them establish properly. My canister filters would get cleaned every 6-12 months. The clogging is weird. And the bad smell is NOT good. Presumably plant remains are getting in? What is the inlet to the filter like? A coarse filter sponge attacked so you can slip it over the inlet will help stop solids from getting in. Filters really shouldn't be seen as mechanical filters - the less muck that gets into the filter the better it is for the bacteria and it won't clog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymox Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I think if the worms are causing the lck of flow then maybe you do need to do something. Is there alot of algae in the tank? or alot of left over food? Those worms need to be thriving off something, and obviously, your fish are well fed, so perhaps the worms are a result of overfeeding? (dont worry this is something Im very bad for, specially during spawning) The whole lawn thing has confused me a lil sorry, (been drinking tonight), is this a tank or a pond? And what do you mean by rinsing on the lawn? I wash my filters only in tank water or the Daphnia tank outside. I get numerous Mozzie larvae in my tanks though, but i keep a portion unlidded for just such a purpose as my fighters and guppies love the live food. Also how much plant life is in your tank, for example. My snail stowaways havnt been able to get a foodhold because of the plants efficient work. Do these worms live souly in the substrate and filters? Or do they freely move about the tank? Have you seen where they congregate? Mainly around sources of algae, food or waste? Perhaps the bacteria in your filters isnt quite coping with the resourses, so something else has founds a niche Remember Im NOOBIE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 You really shouldn't have to clean out the filter that frequently. The bacterial colonies are the main 'filtration' component, and they like to be undisturbed. Doing it that regularly won't let them establish properly. My canister filters would get cleaned every 6-12 months. The clogging is weird. And the bad smell is NOT good. Presumably plant remains are getting in? What is the inlet to the filter like? A coarse filter sponge attacked so you can slip it over the inlet will help stop solids from getting in. Filters really shouldn't be seen as mechanical filters - the less muck that gets into the filter the better it is for the bacteria and it won't clog. I don't clean my other canisters more than every few months but this one just keeps stopping so I had to get the flow going again! That is great advice though Stella. The plants are new and growing very well - I haven't noticed any bits floating around (unlike my other tanks) but I will get a sponge over the inlet and see if that helps. I do wonder about the worms in the filter sponges and those that I know are in the substrate under the plants....and yes, the smell is terrible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I had a canister filter die a while ago and I finally disconnected it and drained it yesterday. I TOTALLY agree on the smell!! (mmm decomposition!) My filters usually have a few tubifex and some snails living in it, but not many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymox Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 my room smells bad since I got fishies spawning, infusoria stinks, like a sweet kinda sick smell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I reckon the first one is the larval stage of a non-biting midge(A bloodworm is one), seeing as they live in tubey things (for need of a word :-? lol) eat sludge, rotting vegitation, soil and sewage they will turn into pupa eventually so you could try sticking some of the muck into a icecream container,ect and then see if you get any midges I dunno about the 2nd one though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymox Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hmm yea my experience is bloodworms are mozzies, midgies breed out of water I think. If they are mozzies, shortly before they turn into full blown mozzies, they will get kind of a white fuzz on the head, they will wriggle with more purpose and try find the surface, you can see them start to split as they feel the pressure difference the closer they are to the surface. They are red and kind of silvering just before hatching, if they were mozzie larve I think you would have seen this by now. Its hard to catch the metamorphesis but you should see the newly developed mozzies on the surface and a silverly clear husk left floating near by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I think if the worms are causing the lck of flow then maybe you do need to do something. Is there alot of algae in the tank? or alot of left over food? Those worms need to be thriving off something, and obviously, your fish are well fed, so perhaps the worms are a result of overfeeding? (dont worry this is something Im very bad for, specially during spawning) I figured it was overfeeding as well, but as I mentioned above I have been very careful. The cardinals are underfed if anything. The ottos may be the culprit. There is no algae in the tank anymore (used to have some brown algae). Every few days I put algae wafers in a disc of courgette to feed the ottos and generally leave that hanging in the tank for a few hours - I am thinking I should leave it in for less time in future. The whole lawn thing has confused me a lil sorry, (been drinking tonight), is this a tank or a pond? And what do you mean by rinsing on the lawn? I wash my filters only in tank water or the Daphnia tank outside. I get numerous Mozzie larvae in my tanks though, but i keep a portion unlidded for just such a purpose as my fighters and guppies love the live food. Don't worry, it is a tank and I normally hardly clean the filters at all and if I do I rinse it in tank water. I was just so overwhelmed with the number of worms and the thickly clogged tubes that I took it out to the lawn! Also how much plant life is in your tank, for example. My snail stowaways havnt been able to get a foodhold because of the plants efficient work. I have dwarf sag (subulata, not microfolia) and very healthy hairgrass that has covered all the foreground substrate. I have a CO2 system, f. excel and fert balls. Do these worms live souly in the substrate and filters? Or do they freely move about the tank? Have you seen where they congregate? Mainly around sources of algae, food or waste? I have only seen the worm cases on the lower hairgrass stems and in the filter on the sponges and noodles. Have never seen them floating. There is no rotting food in the hairgrass but obviously there is fish faeces that I don't vacuum out of the plants. Perhaps the bacteria in your filters isnt quite coping with the resourses, so something else has founds a niche I set up the tank 3 months ago using mature media from my display tank's canister so this tank only had a mini cycle. The water parameters have been fine, as I have been checking them out of concern, but recently I have upped the water changes to see if that might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 there not mozzies as they dont bite or eat and only last a few days as adults, I think i might have some eggs in with my damselfly larvae so im guessing theres tons of them in the bottom of my pond lol and mozzies/mozzie larvae are completley different to midges and their larvae The cases are what the larvae live in as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 I reckon the first one is the larval stage of a non-biting midge(A bloodworm is one), seeing as they live in tubey things (for need of a word :-? lol) eat sludge, rotting vegitation, soil and sewage they will turn into pupa eventually so you could try sticking some of the muck into a icecream container,ect and then see if you get any midges I dunno about the 2nd one though... Good idea! I will try that! There is a lot of sludge they can eat...(what is all the sludge from?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Good idea! I will try that! There is a lot of sludge they can eat...(what is all the sludge from?) Probably a combination of fish waste, plant matter and decaying things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Thanks guys. I will see if any hatch and in the mean time I will put a sponge over the inlet and hold off on feeding for a while. Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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