RnB Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I have been toying with this idea for a long time, but I have been working away from AKL for so long it has firmly stayed on the too hard basket. I will soon be AKL based full time and so the planning has begun. This thread will explain the joys and disasters that will occur along the way, and should remove any doubt as to the ability of a simple hobbist/group to make this work. The first steps are to understand the regulations of MAF http://www.maf.govt.nz/biosecurity/border/transitional-facilities/animals/154-02-06.htm The MAF guys have been really good so far, put me in contact with the MAF vet who will answer written questions, They just want me to make sure that the facility is safe, meets regulations and is soundly operated. I am meeting with ACC to discuss this tomorrow, regarding the building ACC Building Permits..... are here.... http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/services/buildingconsents/default.asp I have done RM and Permits before but if you had never done it it would be intimidating, easy once you know what you are expected to submit though..... What is this going to cost...... my estimates not including my labour time (I have December off so should have plenty of time on my hands.....) $3700 Building of the Facility including Permits and inspections $400 Tanks have glass make my own jobbies..... $250 Stands etc - have a tennant who is a welder 8) $500 DIY Skimmer - will be a 2 pump needlewheel recirc unit, made out of irrigation pipes - only clear bit will be the collection cup and water level indicator. $0 Pumps - have a lot of bits lying around $0 Lights - have 4 x 250W units sitting around. $0 Power very little as i am a electronic engineer and have many sparky mates who will do the connection work. $300 Pipes, taps and bends (got real cheap stuff a closeout of building depot. also got lots of more costs to come and also autocad of the 1st cut room..... A major cost at this first choice location is the building, I have other properties that have garages but want the facility very close to me.... This shed will easily be a fishroom/storage unit at a later date........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 you still have to take into account the pumps costing something, as they are assets if you sell them they are worth $$$ to you. i would also add on 200% to the cost for miscellaneous shit you haven't even thought about yet or surprises along the way. but thats just my experience in business (and house rennovations!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 but the issue is actual cash that I have to drop as a hobbiest to make this happen for me...... I will get everything back at the end of the project to reuse,sell etc, your millage will vary, I am convinced I could get this setup for about 3-4k if I had the shed already....... :roll: don't worry an actual cost of the project will be issued in due course, along with the costs of the imports etc etc etc This will be an open book excercise on how much it costs for a hobbist to import there own corals and fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Yeah don't forget nets, that could cost upwards of $15.00. Ohhhh and pieman coral import tax, which should run you about 5 pieces a shipment. Ohhhh and pieman fish import tax, should run about 2 fish a shipment. Sounds like HEAPS of fun Peter, good on ya. I bet you will be glad to not have to travel out of town every week, even if it does mean staying in Auckland Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 RnB I know of one freight forwarder who used to do a lot of import and exports of corals from the Islands and they are International Delivery Services located in Airport Oaks Mangere. have you considered getting a local fish club or Clubs involved with your project as a learning facility and help with your plans. even fund raising of sorts. Just a suggestion. Then you can also do freshwater imports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 oh no the piemafia has arrieved........ protection tax already!!!!! I have the building consent stuff 95% done, so hope to be skyhooking sometime before xmas. The building is based on a 20ft insulated ex shipping container with containement fitted. Mounted on concrete /stell foundation, I will be doing everything myself to reduce costs. I am trying to source a cheap, read second hand, aircon unit if anyone knows where one might be???? about $300-400, there is a large judder bar outside my house if anyone has a truckload going past....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Re Exporters - there are a lot of exporters - see http://www.aquafind.com Re freight forwarders - thanks for the tip I will talk to them. yes have considered lots of things regarding clubs, groups, co-ops, but also understand the concept of group dynamics...... and MAF MAF likes, in fact requires, to know exactly who they are dealing with. This will simply happen faster if I run it for now, I am a Project Director by trade and I am used to making things happen fast, especially fitout type projects. Once its up, I will definitely be asking for operational help from other people. I do not think that I have the space required to do both marine and freshwater... but lets see the Autocad first. I have considered it, but would only personally be interested in Discus..... I think importing most other fish type in NZ would not be economic for the hobbist.... FW have a 6 week Q period, Marines have a 3. I am going to try and make sure the fish and coral are in separate rooms so that fishroom can be used for either freshwater or marine while a coral import is in Q. MAF prefer separate rooms, though physical seperation through dist can suffice, I do not have that distance.... While it will be quite a small facility, it will be about the same physical size as other marine import stations at the moment. I have pictures from when Marine Reef Enthusiasts operated Oceanic Images... Mikes station, much of what can now be found at aquanet I believe. Though I recognise Barrys old MH light fitting from Mikes coral tanks :lol: man NZ is a small place in this hobby. Marines and Discus both offer huge potential savings for the hobbist. I want a discus tank too..... :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I've seen Discuss for sale for as little as $35.00 in the stores. I understand there are some 'special' breeds, wild caught ones etc, but is there really much call for it? There is a guy who works for my company (Bilbo on this board I think) who breeds discuss, and I am sure there are hundreds of others too? Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Just out of curiosity, were you required to get Resource Consent or does your zoning permit Private run quarantines? Cheers Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 How do you sterilize your "contaminated water"? This can be expensive. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 A few buckets of spa/pool chlorine would be good enough to sterilize heaps of waste water. I think when I read the quarantine requirments that's all they require is you chlorinate it to something like 100 PPM of chlorine? Don't remember the exact number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 talking to the council, Mike used to live in my council area and had same zoning, so i do not expect much of an issue, its all about how visable the activity is, noise, increased traffic etc, I do not see a problem but who knows will report as i go along. Regarding wwaste water, you can use poolchlor at about 200ppm .9.1 Chlorination of waste water All water to be treated must pass through a filter capable of removing suspended organic material prior to chlorination. An amount of chlorine compound shall be added to the effluent in order to a achieve a minimum concentration of free residual chlorine of 200 ppm (200 mg per litre) at I hour post treatment. Sodium hypochlorite (bleach) may be used at 1.6 millilitres of hypochlorite solution (12.5% available chlorine) per litre of water, while calcium hypochlorite powder (e.g. Pool Chlor, 65-70% available chlorine) may be used at 0.3 gram of powder per litre of water. Tanks not achieving this level at the allotted time shall be re-treated until the requirement is met. Before the treatment period commences, the chlorinated effluent shall be brought to a pH between 5.0 and 7.0. The tank shall be agitated for a period of not less than 10 minutes to ensure thorough mixing of hypochlorite and retained for a period of not less than 1 hour. The chlorine in the wastewater may be neutralised by adding sodium thiosulphate at a rate of 1.25 gram (2.5 ml of 50% sodium thiosulphate solution) per litre of treated wastewater, then agitated for not less than 10 minutes before discharge. Chlorination records shall be maintained noting: amount of compound added, volume of effluent, time that treatment period commenced, pH at commencement of the treatment period, 20 hour or 30 minute post-treatment concentration determined by an approved test method. it takes about 3 scoops to take my spa to this level and that costs about $2-3 max prob less actually in big drum... not often you need to dump this much and compared with other costs not much. big costs are frieght maf fees loss of stock your time the original fish/coral price is very low.... the other costs involved are probably between 800-2000% of the purchase price of the fish, 1st shipment i will detail all costs, expect to have it ready to go by the end of Feb 2005. Given install time, etc etc etc then have to mature the system a bit before first import.... I am also looking for a much cheaper source of dead dry rock..... Same rock, just if brought in in a large shipment, shipping gets way lower, its all basically shipping cost and transport here and profit, its way cheap to get by the tonne up in the islands.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Here is the ACC lowdown. If you where to convert a room in your house from a bedroom to a fishroom, the ACC would not be involved, its the same thing if you convert an existing room in an existing building to a MAF import facility. If you operate as a business then you have to fall within the "Home occupations guidelines" this discusses noise, smell, increased traffic, etc. They advise seeking a COC (Certificate of Compliance $200 fee) so that you have a piece of paper with council approval saying your operation complies with the work from home guidelines, however this is a option only as you have a right to work from home as long as you do not breach the guidelines. As a quick note the discharge of chlorinated water is ok as long as you have followed the MAF guidelines and neutralised the chlorine levels. So apparently i have a Right to do this as long as i do not breach the work from home guidelines and these only apply if i operate as a business, which implies trying to make a profit etc etc, while i have some personal tax reasons why this might be desirable your millage may vary. Now if I want to put a new shed on the back of the property thats where things get more involved, not because of what it is, simply where i am, In Ponsonby its a character zone, so i have to have a resource consent to do ANYTHING. I would have to comply with height restrictions, % use of land etc etc, not a biggie as its just paperwork but paperwork never the less. Still not a major, an i need to do this anyway on a longer term storage perspective. So it seems that it is not really a biggie to do the MAF import thing, more a building issue that everyone will have if you propose to put up a new building.... a possibility - council does not require approval if below 10 sq meters and you are inside the % use of land limits. as long as this buidling meet MAF requirements... ie 4.2 Structural Requirements A fully enclosed building shall be provided for the access of people and the holding of ornamental fish. Floors, walls, ceiling, shelves, benches and all other fixtures shall be constructed of permanent materials that can be effectively cleaned and disinfected. Floor surfaces should be smooth and impervious. They shall be maintained so that free water does not lie on the surface. The ornamental fish shall be held in tanks. The tanks shall be kept clean and have at least one clear glass side for easy inspection of the fish. There shall be sufficient lighting to clearly observe their contents. Tanks shall be permanently identified so that records of the fish can be correlated with each tank. Tanks must be fitted with lids (or approved equivalent) to prevent fish jumping out of the tanks and to minimise splash contamination. 4.3 Security of the Transitional Facility A prominent sign shall be displayed at the entrance to the facility to show that it is a quarantine facility and that unauthorised entry is prohibited. Procedures shall be adopted to prevent unauthorised access to the facility. The entrances to the facility shall be kept locked, except when in active use. council suggest this being a desirable no cost no pain route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Is there not a requirement that in case of a major spill, (the lot fall over) all water must be contained within the premises. I too have considered a q. station here. That was one of my problems with the earthquakes here, but the other problem was the distance from international airport and also the distance, (Rotorua or Tauranga) for the vets to travel IE. Time plus travel = large costs. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 4.9 Water Disposal and Treatment Provision shall be made to contain (and treat if required) the accidental spillage of water from at least two of the largest fish tanks. in reaslity if you have a 6inch damn at the door, given say 15-20 square meter site, you can effectivelly contain a 3000L very little chance that many break.... unless major quake and then the whole building in big troble anyway.... the two sites i have seen and mine would cope with major loss of tanks..... i think you could do it but it would be more difficult, Invercargill would not be easy tho either, where there is a will to save money there is always a way.......... Vet time could well be an issue tho, MAF can subcontract local vets tho i believe, best to check this one tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 stroke of luck, I have managed to get Autocad files for my house / section etc , which will make both the MAF and the council applications "a lot" easier. My MAF application already runs to about 15 pages, and thats just site application not Q manual. The great thing about putting it on paper is you have to consider what will actually work in practice Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 ...to prevent fish jumping out of the tanks and to minimise splash contamination... ha ha haaaaa! splash contamination :lol: watch out that saltwater might burn through your floorboards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 its between different shipments! Its actually a very simple document, the more you read it the more you understand it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 for those interested this appears to be the norm. Q. How many fishes or corals can fit in a box ? A. For corals generally we can fit around 20 pcs per box. For fishes it is generally harder to determine since the variety and size of the fishes matter to make up the box. As a guidelines, we can put these items in a box. Coral Beauty Angel (M) around 30-35 pcs, or Sebae Clown (M) around 25-30 pcs, or Damsels (M) around 180 - 200 pcs, or Red Volitan Lionfish (M) around 10 pcs, etc Q. What is the box’s dimension and how much does it weight ? A. L x W x H is 21†x 14†x 16â€, one box of fish is about 18 KG (40 lbs) and one box of corals is about 25 KG (55 lbz). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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