WEKA Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I am in the process of cycling my 300L cold saltwater tank. Total system volume approx 550L. I raised the temp to 25 deg to speed up the cycle and hung on a cycled cannister to the system. I have added pure ammonia daily starting with 50ml and reduced to 30ml after nitrites appeared in 10 days. Ammonia 0.0 ppm each day after 24hrs. Nitrites 5+ off the test chart. Nitrates 10.0ppm all now for the last 9 days. My question is, how long should it take for the nitrite levels to start dropping. I thought it would have happened before now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I never pre-cycled my cold water marine. Just added inhabitants slowly and the filter created bacteria to the correct levels. Perhaps one of the salties can better answer your question as I don't know if levels for marine are the same as for fresh. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Bit confused as to how long you have been cycling so far?? Is it 10 days plus the 9, 19 in total, if so you should start to see it dropping soon. Water changes will help to, it's a myth that water changes shouldn't be done during cycling, most bacteria live on the rocks and substrate and the high nitrite/nitrate levels in the water will kill off any stuff you have living on the sand and rock. If you have access to rock pools I'd also recommend collecting some glass shrimp and adding them in, they will cycle far better than manually adding ammonia and will also help clean up the algae which will but starting to show up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Suphew, could I have some clarification here please. So I'm cycling my 3 foot freshwater tank and it's onto the Nitrite stage, they're off the charts. Should I do a big water change now? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yep. It's not as a big a deal in fresh water tanks since there isn't the life like good algaes, sponges, worms, copepods etc that you get with salt water, but it wont hurt and IMO a good idea to start doing your husbandy (water changes etc) now as you plan to go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 and stop adding ammonia!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 puttputt It is my understanding that the whole process will stop if I don't keep feeding it ammonia as I do not have any livestock to go into the tank at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 puttputt It is my understanding that the whole process will stop if I don't keep feeding it ammonia as I do not have any livestock to go into the tank at this time. The process will not stop. Once ammonia turns into nitrite you are away. The bacteria is there, and as soon as your nitrite drops, do a water change to remove nitrates, add some fish day by day and you should be fine. Im cycling a fully stocked tank at the moment due to getting a new filter and not seeding it - as soon as you understand the process its easily managable. I do 30% water changes every 4 days on a sparesly stocked new tank, and every two days on a stocked tank when recycling until the ammonia drops off. Testing before each water change to keep an eye on things - if for what ever reason one of the levels is deadly high, do a 50% water change for 2 days. I understand though you may not be wanting to do as many water changes with saltwater, as conditioning the water is a bit more of a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 and stop adding ammonia!! +1 You don't want an xs. of Ammonia in the tank, just enough to get the process started and then the tank will cycle as normal. When I set my marine tank up - It was about 4 months of "setting" the tank before my first real inhabitants went in. The corals went in 3 months into the process. Maybe I was being a little too cautious, but i had synthetically started the tank with red sea max salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Thanks for all your comments. I still cannot understand what will keep the bacteria cycle going if I have no stock and no ammonia for several weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 As far as im aware, the bacteria will still alive unless you kill it with chlorine or something. However, if you believe the bacteria needs constant feeding of ammonia, throw a cheap fish in there, whatever the saltwater equivalent of a goldfish is... though I doubt theyd be 'cheap' in comparision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Cheers Morcs This is to be cold water with local critters so will carry on with ammonia until stock available. I am using nsw so changes not a big deal, can pick up 400L at a time locally. The 30+ mls I add each morning is gone by the following morning so something must be working. I am just a bit surprised that the nitrites have not started to drop yet. I am pleased with the way the fishless cycle has gone so far. Took a while to track down the pure ammonia, got it from Binn Inn, made in USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 why don't you just chuck a prawn (dead one like the packet ones) in there for a few days? about 2-3 days in it will get some fluffy stuff - that's when you chuck it out and put another one in. That's how I'd do it if you cant find any glass shrimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Cheers Morcs This is to be cold water with local critters so will carry on with ammonia until stock available. I am using nsw so changes not a big deal, can pick up 400L at a time locally. The 30+ mls I add each morning is gone by the following morning so something must be working. I am just a bit surprised that the nitrites have not started to drop yet. I am pleased with the way the fishless cycle has gone so far. Took a while to track down the pure ammonia, got it from Binn Inn, made in USA. Cool, Id stop adding the ammonia and monitor the nitrites. After a week or so after theyve disappeared completely, you could always add some more ammonia and see if it denitrifies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I have a DIY denitrator in the system which is cycling as well. Was hoping to get the nitrates up and see how it works but I guess this will not happen until the nitrites start to drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hoorah Yesterday when I did my daily tests the nitrites had suddenly dropped to OOOOOO. It is now 40 days since the nitrites appeared!!!!!!!!! I stopped adding ammonia for six days and bingo. After my tests yesterday I added 30mls of ammonia and this morning no nitrites, no ammonia and nitrates are on the way up from 20 to 40ppm. I will continue with the ammonia now and see if the system is stable. Planning to pickup NSW on Thursday and do big water change. No stock yet so will keep feeding ammonia in meantime. Will start dropping the temp daily down to 18 deg. Thanks for all the advice, patience won in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 so why keep adding ammonia? Totally pointless. Took a while to track down the pure ammonia Can't see why, every dairy has it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Reef So what will keep the cycle going if there is no food for the bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 WEKA, once your bacterial populations have grown (the tank has cycled) the absence of Ammonia won't cause the bacteria to die, their metabolic rate just slows down - they hibernate. As soon as food (Nitrogenous compounds) reappear they will begin to process it almost immediately. You can test this by stopping adding Ammonia, waiting until your tests read nil for Ammonia and Nitrite (your Nitrate might also begin to diminish if you have enough live rock in your tank), then wait another week or so and then add some more Ammonia - a day or so later you should see your Nitate begin to rise again, without any spike in Ammonia or Nitrite (unless you add rediculous amounts, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks tHEcONCH I have continued adding 30ml of ammonia each morning and 24hrs later when I test there is 0.0 ppm ammonia and 0.0 ppm nitrite. My nitrates are sitting at 10 ppm. I have dropped the temperature down to 17 deg since the nitrites disappeared as this is a cold water set up. I stopped adding ammonia this morning to see what happens. I have no stock at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurfs Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 WEKA, once your bacterial populations have grown (the tank has cycled) the absence of Ammonia won't cause the bacteria to die, their metabolic rate just slows down - they hibernate. As soon as food (Nitrogenous compounds) reappear they will begin to process it almost immediately. You can test this by stopping adding Ammonia, waiting until your tests read nil for Ammonia and Nitrite (your Nitrate might also begin to diminish if you have enough live rock in your tank), then wait another week or so and then add some more Ammonia - a day or so later you should see your Nitate begin to rise again, without any spike in Ammonia or Nitrite (unless you add rediculous amounts, of course). Wow, wish I'd heard about this before! ya mean those strange looks are avoidable? LOL *have you seen that crazy lady feeding her Invisible fish* So now I'm curious, how long can nitrifying bacteria colonies survive/hibernate without being fed? do you mean a weekly feed will suffice until ready to stock? or how often? filing away useful info for future use... Gosh, there really is no excuse not to get a tank fully cycled and ready to go ahead of time, aye?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I'm afraid that's one of those questions like 'How long is a piece of string?' There are too many variables to give a definitive answer, but I'd guess that feeding an empty tank a 'usual' amount once a fortnight would be plenty. Some research also suggests that some bacteria can become more efficient at processing certain compounds the longer they are exposed to it, so their populations don't actually grow much, but they can process / consume more. When all is said and done the tried and true recipe of cycling your tank, adding stock slowly, doing regular partial water changes, and not overstocking means its largely irrelivant in practical terms. Having healthy fish in your tank makes it far more fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 So what will keep the cycle going if there is no food for the bacteria got live rock? that will be full of detritus that will take, even if seemingly "good quality", years to breakdown. even the bacteria have a certain lifecycle, they die, create levels of ammonia (albeit tiny) which the next lot of bacteria feed off. oh and someone forgot to mention test kits aren't 100% accurate... even though something may measure 0ppm, its very very unlikely. you will always have traces of something. take the reading of a test kit as a "rough indication" - not an "exact measurement". to say 0ppm of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate is only giving you a rough indication you are on the right track. as conch says above, base it on a healthy looking tank - don't rely or get overly concerned about "1ppm of X, Y Z" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 chimera Two bare tanks running off a common outside plant room. Approx 500L of N/S water total. The plan is to collect local cold water critters. Running 17 deg at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 The plan is to collect local cold water critters Even less reason to be overly concerned with water parameters (obviously need to cycle first - but long term, you're using water that these critters live in anyway) Consider using some form of live rock, its not just for bacterial growth, gives inhabitants a place to live/hide etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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