chimera Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 but guess what pies, cleaner shrimps have dropped to an 'affordable' (insert tui's ad slogan here) $65 when i asked staff at hollywood a few weeks ago,... what would i expect a good price to pay for a cleaner shrimp? i'd expect to pay no more than $50 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Every topic regarding price seems to talk about Margins and Business models The problem with this is you are skipping cash flow and target market. the problem is without the apropriate target market size who care what your gross margin is your chashflow is nothing. e.g. My father has a wine cellar, he buy's labels for his many many bottles of wine. He tried to buy more bottles but found that they have closed down. The labels that cost $2 to print sold for $20 (900% profit) how did this company close down? Simple how many people in New Zealand have wine cellars? How many bottles of wine do these cellars hold? & more importantly, what is the turnover rate of the bottles in the cellar? once listing these out it becomes obvious that a wine worth putting a label on sits and doesn't get drunk therefore the label doesn't get replaced. This company closed down because turnover no matter what the profit margin couldn't get high enough. Next point "If you arn't moving ahead you are moving backward" without retailers it will be much more difficult to grow your market, without a retailer it gets expotentially more difficult to maximise your target market. To back these up I will once again reference to personall experience 1) The company I was untill recently managing sold for $700k +sov turnover 1,000,000 - 1,300,000 gross margin 50% (gross profit $500,000) net profit before drawings $300,000 +/- $100,000 2) a liquor company newly established cost $500,000 gross margin 15% (at best some products run loss leaders ie they are sold at a loss to get people into the store) now to justify sepending $500,000 on a company that has a 15% gross margin turnover must be incredably high (lets not forget the law of the risk/return relationship as gross margin goes down net profit must go up to achieve the same going concern selling price) As I say concentrate on all areas of the business as was mentioned in the previous thread about this subject economies of scale I New Zealand these can't be achieved not in respect to freight prices, not in respect to market size and certinatly not in respect to turnover we need retailers to expend the market before a wholesale direct system could be justified. In terms of freshwater I am more than happy to pay retail prices I am lucky enough to have a good LFS that helped me out free of charge while I was starting up, even when all I had was a 2 foot tank the owner himself put ample time into me even though i wasn't even spending enough to justify his time. I feel in all fareness I owe them somthing what he was doing was investing it is what any smart business person does and now that I spend larger amounts of money I spend it with him. Fair enough i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 of course you are happy paying retail for freshwater because its not nearly as expensive as marine... i never had that issue either with my freshwater tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 But Chimera it would be less than half the cost if you went wholesale. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 Almost all the wholesalers I have seen do it in their garage, in a semi-biz semi labour of love, often for interest and personal reasons, tho try to make a small profit to cover time and expenses. All the Auckland based wholesalers I have known supplimented there income from "real" jobs. Almost all the retailers I have seen run a tight business model and do it to feed there family and put kids through uni. It is a lifestyle choice but they have to eat. This is there business. Some are so large they have a team of admin people. Where is all the money made, who are we as hobbists supporting, who are really supporting us. Reef is doing more then anyone else in AKL for the marine hobby. full stop. end of deal. He does more for some of us then others. Seems from here that Pies, me and most others have no issue with wholesale prices, tho we believe there is always room for competition. We believe that the wholesaler takes all the risk...... is normally a hobbist not a professional! For the record, I am talking to MAF about transit facility approval. Small unit, small shipments. Starting the same way as many others. Why? why did you start your first tank.... why the second...... just because...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 best i go wholesale then huh layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 I am not sure if you know it buy I/we do a lot to support this hobby in NZ. I stay tuned to this forum, perhapps partly responsible for its popularity, certainly helped get people to use it initially. ..... And I certainly appreciate that! Now, everyone join me. Thanks Pies !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 20, 2004 Report Share Posted October 20, 2004 we are not worthy.............. now back on topic.... landed cost + 50% + shipping to reef keeper! no conveniane, no browsing through tanks looking for a bargin. no supporting beginners (like to see any other hobby where the more experienced hobbist is expected to support the newbies financially!) just cheap corals and fish.... This will grow the hobby faster then anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I'm with you RnB. Give the profit to the importer. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 ok, ok, here you go pies. any more posts like this and we will call you big pies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 For the record, I am talking to MAF about transit facility approval. Small unit, small shipments. Starting the same way as many others. Why? why did you start your first tank.... why the second...... Good luck on that one. Prepare your knees, you will be doing a lot of this Just because you want to import small amounts make no difference to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 except when you have mates who work at maf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Get out a here, people at MAF have friends.....Can't be in Auckland MAF. We made a basic, and I mean basic telephone enquire, they took our details and said that would call back. Two days later they rang back and told us they were to busy and couldn't help. Real helpful when it is their damn regulations to start with. I know another guy who was told if he enquired about his goods one more time the paper work would go to the back of the cue. It somehow went missing for six days....don't get me started on MAF.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I knew there was a reason that new little blue smiley was added :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 but to be fair, biosecurity in general is a big issue for NZ... i don'tr think they make me go out of my way, compared with anyone else..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 My partner works in the freight industry and deals with MAF every day. They have to fax documents to them like every other freight company for clearance. MAF have one fax in Auckland and spit the dummy if you fax it to another region. So thousands of faxs a day. Can't possibly except a PDF file, technology a bit scary, must have a peice of paper at all cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Pies; Have I missed something whats stopping you buying wholesale you know the importers personally, is it MAF dont they allow importers to sell direct to the public. If so perhaps club members could try and deal with the retailers to try and organize a discount for club members producing a membership card something like AA card. Or cards that get stamped with every purchase not just coral when its full you get a voucher to use with your next purchase, I'm surprised shops aren't already doing this because it keeps you shopping at the same shop, most big garden centers use this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 have been working on this, hopefully can be organised it in a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thats great how do I become a club member<>Do you mean importers selling direct to club members, or discounts at retail stores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 It will be through the retail stores , just working out all the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 i was just at Jansens and Hollywoods Hollywoods display tank is looking very good IMHO. Average prices for corals where about $60-70 ish each my tank is the same size as Hollywoods, that tank has about 100 corals in it. :roll: in general i think prices have moved down slightly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Importers total landed cost + 50% + cost of shipping / handling to you.... r&b Does your ideal pricing include labour?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Average cost of $60-$70 sounds far more reasonable to me. Looks like Reefs comments about bringing down the prices are quite true. That seems to be a big improvement from the prices I last saw (over 6 months ago since I was in Auckland and looked). FAY - I have lots of options for buying live stock and equipment, always mail order as there are no supportive stores down here. As for 'store discounts' Animates have a loyalty program, spend $300 and get a $10 voucher. Thats right, 3%, how they manage to stay in business is beyond me with those sorts of discounts. If your a memeber of the FNZAS and shop at Hollywood they offer a 10% discount, as will most other pet stores (at least many will). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Pies it must be hard buying mail order you cant see what your getting, its a pity you couldn't start importing. Like Alois said the labour content must be high, I dont know how he does it keeping all those tanks clean, feeding, unpacking, packing that must be fun but I would want to put it all in my tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Fay - Importing is not somthing I would consider myself, as much fun as it could be, there is no way I could find the time or the energy. I have helped Alois out on 3 seperate ocasions when stuff has arrived, and it was quite fun, but also hard work. Very exciting seeing all those things you don't get to see every day, but the stress/worry and other problems would drive me insane in about 2 minutes flat I think. As for mail order, yes it is hard when you can't see what you going to buy. As you may or may not know I have had problems with a few places, so its just a case of finding someone who can be trusted and treats you well. Aquanet/Alois has always taken good care of me via mail order and on the 2 ocasions where I have had proble, has offered a refund or replacement with no fuss or drama. So I just stick with the suppliers who treat me the fairest. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.