nodle Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Hi all im starting a 180ltr reef tank after Christmas and need some things cleared up. Even though i have been reading a fear bit in books, online and talkin to LFS in Christchurch. 1. Seeding rock so it becomes live with pods worms and bacteria (how since you can not buy live rock) 2. Coralline allge (is there starter spoores you can buy ?) 3. Sand ok crushed coral seems a rip off at $25 for 3kgs what else can i use when i need over 40kgs of it 4. Getting tank raised Frags and fish as don't want a high impact reef 5. Is natral sea water a exceptable option in New Zealand or as we are cold water could there be problems with plangton and allge blooms when the water is warmed up. Hope someone out there can help a fool clear his head. If you know of someone in Christchurch i should talk to let me know. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hi Noodle. There are a few people in Christchurch on the board who I am sure will help you if they can. To answer your questions: 1. You can buy live rock, just can't always get it from the pet stores. Live rock is often available for approx $15 per KG. This will contain all the pods, worms and critters you need. It will also have coraline algae etc on it. Catch JetSkiSteve on this board as I know he has premo live rock for sale at the moment. 2. As above, you will get this in droves on good quality live rock. 3. You won't need too much sand but make sure you used 'coral sand'. You should exect to pay no more than $70 per sack (15kg or 25kg I forget which). DO NOT USE beach sand, this is high in silicates and will cause you problems. You want less than 1 inch of sand for you tank, so for 180 litres I would expect a few KG will be plenty. 4. Lots of frags for sale, I have some, I am sure others will offer more as time goes on. If you think people are reluctant to sell you coral, don't feel bad, its just people don't like selling their tank raised stock if they think it won't survive. Give people time to know you and your setup and you will find more and more offers as time rolls on. 5. Most of us use NSW for our tanks. However christchurch water is quite away from the city and I am not sure what its quality is like. Layton on this site may be able to answer this better as he is in Christchurch (he uses ASW though...). Take it nice and slowly, get you tank and plumbing right first, then get rock ASAP. Then while this is cycling get you circulation pumps, lights etc before getting stock. You will get sick of hearing it, but patience is the best thing you can get for this hobby, but you can't buy it. Good luck to you. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 for the live stuff find someone in the area with some liverock (all youll need for coralline is a fist sized peice to start it off) the bacteria magically finds your house (i dont know how) as for the bugs, when you buy frags and such, they will normally come on a chunk of live rock, in some cases this can be quite big and it will have worms and pods in and on it HAHA I TOOK SO LONG WRITING THIS ONE THAT PIES BEAT ME TO IT GOOD ADVISE FROM ABOVE AND BELOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 pies made a really important point at the end of his post.... more important then you know now! before you put any water in the tank, get all your plumbing, spray bars, closed loops, electric wires, probes in place, cable tied or whatever in...... "hang lights above tank (do not use hood as a rest for this) you will forever be moving stuff around...... make sure tank is low enough that you can reach to the glass bottom without using a chair ladder (you will love me later for this one alone!) find and sortout your RO/DI system... its no use 2 weeks in just adding tap water into your tank as evap makeup.... even if you agree to use someone elses ro for a while while you get acces to one yourself..... in this hobby everything you do in a hurry normally costs twice as much, and is half as good as something done slowly and thought out.... I am not as experienced as many here but you learn quite quickly, often by making mistakes..... last piece of advice..... no matter what people tell you, it is hard to have a really sttunning tank without spending quite a bit of money , (i do not want to start an argument here about how much/little you have to spend). great tanks need good water quaility (read RO/DI, good skimmer or bad skimmer and lower bio load , phosphate reducer only needed if phosphate gets in to tank in the first place!) Good flow read closed loops, NO quiet spots in the tank for muck to settle. Ask someone to donate you 10-20 snails quite early on, as they really help cleanup muck. good lighting, not only for coral growth but good lighting makes your tank look good. discipline, this cannot be purchased! you have to do all the maintenance, tests, water changes at reguklaer and stable points in time! 10% water change every 2 weeks is not that same as 30% every 6 weeks 8) find a local person to help mentor you, and do not be afraid to ask too many questions.... mail me at [email protected] and i will send you something you should read..... also happy to talk to you via phone with some advice. I am quite new, had a 500L tank up for about 18 months now. best advice i can give you is to think about the physical setup really well now while you can, talk to a lot of people because each of us have done different things and while there is no definitive right way, you will notice a trend developing in the advice you get 8) welcome, i hope you have as much fun having a reef in your house as i have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodle Posted October 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 thanks for the replys so far and big ups to Pies thanks man Ok live rock i will have to look for this once i get my base rock in and stable. I was working the sand out on a 4 inch deep sand bed but i could just add more rock i suppose. Now $70 for 15-25kgs dam thats cheeper than down here. As for sea water i live ten minutes from the beach and drive to the heads at least once a week so distance is good but then i suppose dirty water at beach and posible drawning hanging onto the rocks at the heads trying to get buckets of water. Once again thank for the addvice and keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 The general rule for a sand bed is less than 1 inch, or greater than 8 inch (live DSB) anything inbetween only collects dirt and rubish. I would reccomend just going for the less than 1 inch sand bed. Easy and less likley to cause issues. Because of the small size of the tank, I don't know if its even worth using 'base rock', maybee just easier to buy all live rock. Thats what I have done, as have most others. Also if you are worried about 'wasting rock' look at building a reef rack, Chimera has published some pictures of his, which is exactly what I am using and have been for 18 months. A rack helps reduce the amount of rock needed and also helps with water flow as there is a cavity under the rock structure. Get the tank and plumbing sorted, keep reading and take you time, you will be fine. I'm hoping Layton will chime in and offer his thoughts on NSW in Christchurch, but most of us just pick a spot that looks clean. There is a recent thread here about collecting salt water, and most of us feel its the better way to go. Good luck Piemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 if you use LOTS of high flow in loop pumps for water movement, like tunze streams, it really blows the sand around, I know of hi flow tanks that do not use sand at all for this reason......... i like the look of sand but really think the rock is a better filter.... I have sand but i am considering taking it out...... Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 gimme your sand then peter!!! do yourself a favour and learn from my mistakes (and save some money while you're at it too) see here: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=2902&start=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 i am happy to swap say 3kg of live sand for 3 kg of dead sand so you can seed the tank, i want to put the rest of my sand into refugium.... i like home it provides for pods worms etc, but it becomes a shite trap.... no fish in refugium means no shite..... also want to put it in the bottom of a rock cure tank to speed the process... but as i have quite a bit, at least 30-40 kg in the tank i think, am happy to gjust swap some.... Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hi Dave. As far as NSW goes. I don't really know. I don't waste my time with it. I would be wary of collecting it from anywhere in Lyttleton harbour, or around the estuary obviously. Which doesn't leave a lot of places with convenient access. I may be wrong, and you could test the water, but it's more the things you can't test for that I'd be worried about. Do you mind if I ask what shops you have been talking to? Some are better than others. 180 litre tank? Is that 3 foot? I really would not recommend starting with anything under 4 foot. I makes life much harder for yourself. I have plenty of frags in my tank for when the time comes to add stuff to your tank. I am very busy for the next month and a half, but after that I would be more than happy to show you my setup so you can get some idea of what does what, and what not to do. There is also another reefer down here, JoeBlog (Steve), who posts here every now and then. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 solution: move to wellies or auckland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Chimera, you need to have a problem before you look for a solution! Using ASW is not a problem at all, I prefer it. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 each to their own :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Peter, my sump is bare bottom with no fish & i still have to vacuum the shite out on occasion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 5. Most of us use NSW for our tanks. This is really assumed. Most hobbyists don’t use natural seawater only people that are using it are either on a budget or have very little experience in long term reef aquariums and have not been around long enough to understand the problems many hobbyist have had. I have seen so many tanks develop problems with natural seawater, Mind you I have also seen tanks that use ASW that are having problems with algae etc. The people that use natural seawater can get away with using it because they have big skimmers which help removing pollutants before it becomes a problem. Natural seawater contains high organics which is caused by all the run off from land. I have checked the reports from the Auckland regional council which show that there is high organics in the water as certain beaches the bacteria count is high, Sure seawater can be used however it is like playing Russia roulette. Fine most of the time but your luck will run out one day. If you are going to use NSW. Take a test kit and measure the nitrates and phosphates before using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 My first reef tank was in 1990 & my skimmer was a pile of s$%^ and I collected my water from the same place I do today (takapuna) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 When I said 'most of us' I ment most of US, that is the people on this board. Its not an assumption, the fact is more people here use natural water than not. Remeber, if your going to listen to Reefs advice, keep in mind that he sells saltmix. It is insane to think that artificial salt water is better than real sea water, makes no sense at all. I can afford to use salt, and if I was lazy its what I would use, but NATURAL sea water will be better for my tank, I have yet to see any evidence to suggest otherwise. As for testing the water, check this forum out for my previous posting on South Coast water and West Coast water, NO NIRATE, NO PHOSPHATE (according to salifert). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 keep in mind that he sells saltmix Which saltmix do i sell?. news to me. facts please not fiction. I use about a ton every two month thats about it, It is insane to think that artificial salt water is better than real sea water, makes Seawater would be better if you could go and get it away from the harbour and beaches; however most of it is collected from the beach. Ask the council why they have to test for bacteria every week?? Why would they test if it was so clean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 I know plenty of people who buy/have brought salt from you. Fact not fiction. Only a ton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 I know plenty of people who buy/have brought salt from you Get you facts right; yea 5-6 bags that i sold makes plenty of people.?? not I had excess so I had to sell it. Obviously I don’t actively sell it or promote a particular brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 I'm not really wanting to get into this debate. My thoughts on the whole Natural vs. artificial thing when in comes to reefs is that there is nothing natural about a glass tank full of saltwater overstocked with corals and fish. Some things in this hobby are practically impossible to do naturally. I suspect that the water around NZ has significantly different trace element composition to that found in tropical reefs. Equilibrium points change with temperature, there are concentration differentials in both elements and bacteria / plankton counts, and diversity in different oceans in the world. The water here is different from the waters of the reefs our animals come from, much as ASW is. No doubt that NSW works, but I don't agree that it is any more beneficial for the tank than ASW. To me the risks are too high. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Get you facts right; I had excess so I had to sell it. Looks like my facts are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Layton, you must be selling saltmix as well?? However you are pretty must spot on with your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 For me, at the rate I've been doing water changes lately(Been REALLY slack) if I wasn't on tank water so the lost water with an RO wouldn't matter, I'd seriously consider ASW. It seems at the moment the ASW would only be costing me $10 per week. Now, if I wasn't being lazy about water changes it would be more like $20-30 per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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