Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 OK, so its not secret I love tropheus, though I have none yet and am still doing a lot of research before taking on that responsibility (though I will do, thats for sure). But now I am just in love !! And I bet they are not available here, lol. But here goes - I know theres a few out there who will know what these ones are;- I believe they are Moorii of some sort but not sure from what reef/region. Images from Practical Fishkeeping Magazine UK - anyone recognise them ? Hope so .. .. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I've found it - seems they are Tropheus Moorii Moliro (red) and here is another lovely variant, Tropheus Moorii Kasanga (looking somewhat photoshop enhanced) ;- Gotta love 'em :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I don't know what they are haven't got into tropheus.. Yet.. One day I will but gotta have the $$'s to buy a descent number of fish and I am waiting for them to be breed and prices to come down, have had an offer of some pemba so hoping that comes through I believe (but not 100% sure) that Tropheus Moorii Moliro (red) is what is commonly sold as Tropheus firefox in NZ? They are on the list at the moment so should be relatively easy to acquire should you want some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 The more I see and read of them the more I know I want them Ryan. Like you I am doing as much homework about them as possible first though, as I recognise they have their quirks and deserve a good understanding before a) spending the $$ and b) taking on the responsibility. If you have not found it already, I think this tropheus forum could prove worthwhile checking out. ( I hope I am allowed to link to other forums - since its a specialist forum I see no conflict of interest ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Visser Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Some of mine Tropheus Moorii Moliro they are only 4.5-5.5cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 They are awesome Johannes. How do u find them compared with other Tropheus ? More/Less agressive ? Just the same ? How many do you have in what size tank ? And as Ryan said, are they the ones given the common name of Firefox ? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Visser Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 We keep only one species per tank. Our tanks range in size we have a colony for 12 Adult T Dubs in a 5 foot and our Caramba's are also in a 5foot They are happy and breeding well I have young in the tanks all the time. Also have 6 foots one with Ikola one with FireFox (26) my biggest colony is Bulu Points and they are in a 8foot Ikola are and have been the most aggressive as we don't have a big enough colony to spread the aggression we constantly have to monitor them. :-? One word of advise make sure you have all meds you need at hand, in case of a emergency had we had some when we needed it I bet our Pembas would be alive and well now the key is to have BIG colonies Pictures below http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m151 ... /Tropheus/ http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m151/JDVisser_2006/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 One word of advise make sure you have all meds you need at hand, in case of a emergency had we had some when we needed it I bet our Pembas would be alive and well now Thanks for the above snippets of advise. With regard this specific quoted one, what medications do you suggest and for what particular problems (the typical Tropheus ones) ? Or, what have you found to be the key issues to watch for regarding health ? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Visser Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 LOL for Bloat ! It not easy as we are not able to abtain the right meds in NZ for the fish ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 LOL for Bloat ! It not easy as we are not able to abtain the right meds in NZ for the fish ! Ahh bloat is the one thing I have read about so far - so what do you treat it with ? Does it happen often ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Those fish look wicked Good work, they will only get better if they are that small.. I am also curious what you would recommend for treating bloat, I thought you used metro which is relatively easy to come by here.. Have also heard that cloat is good but haven't seen that around here yet (haven't looked yet though). Do you guys have any idea what caused your bloat? From the sounds if it noone really knows 100% what causes it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 can a farming med for bloat be adapted or contain what is necessary to alleviate problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 What is the active ingredients of the farming bloat med? Here is the article that I have read on it.. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/malawi_bloat.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Visser Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 LOL Vicks 44 :roll: :lol: THE BIG MOVE STRESS Was dew to water quality/ condition /Copper levels that were too high etc in the new house /Tanks (landscape) that were not set up as they were previously Have a number of meds now and working on obtaining something like clout ! Interesting read http://users.bigpond.net.au/steve.corbe ... bloat.html Combined Regime "Malawi bloat" is a disease perptuated by microscopic flagellates (parasites) that are commonly found in healthy fish. These one-celled protozoans reproduce by binary fission. They can occur on the skin, in the intestine, internal organs, and in the blood of fish. Intestinal flagellates can be found in many fish which they do not harm. The pathogenicity of the organism varies from fish to fish. Thus, Angelfish may not be affected at all by the same flagellates that damage say a Discus. The intestines of these fish can contain millions of flagellates averaging in size of about 8-12 microns. Here is a list of some commonly known flagellates: A. Hexamita B. Spironucleus c. Trichomanas D. Bodamonas E. Protoopalina The most recognized are the first two. Most researchers support the view that some of these protozoans reside in the intestines of healthy fish (dormant), but can proliferate to harmful numbers under stressful conditions. Here is a recent quote from Ad Konings from his book Back to Nature Guide to Malawi Cichlids 2nd. edition pg. 46: "Malawi Bloat is believed to be caused by a flagellate (a unicellular animal, a protozoan). This flagellate occurs in the intestines of all Malawi cichlids but normally causes no harm since the fish's immune system can cope with it. However, in a stressful situation such a balance may disappear and the fish may lose its resistance against an outbreak of a flagellate "attack". This often leads to bloat." Fish are very good at fighting off disease, but when exposed to stressful conditions over a lengthy periods of time their immune systems weaken, thereby exposing them to the possibility of contracting various diseases. Under "stress" the organism multiplies causing considerable localised damage. Once severe enough, the intestinal lining is penetrated and the organism enters the blood causing systemic and organ infections. In large numbers they can block the intestinal tract of a fish creating the"bloat"effect. Some stressors: 1. Low oxygen (O2) levels 2. High nitrite (NO2) levels 3. High nitrate (NO3) levels 4. High ammonia levels (NH3) 5. High or low temperature levels 6. Water pH 7. Lighting 8. Rough handling fish 9. Overcrowding 10. Not enough shelter 11. Harassment 12. Excessive salt 13. Improper diet (specifically herbivores) What one should remember, is that the parasitical outbreak is brought upon by any number of stressors (some listed above), many times in conjunction with one another. Therefore, sometimes the best way to treat a disease is to prevent it from ever happening. A clean non-stressful environment will breed colorful, thriving cichlids. If they get bloat from diet, is this in fact something different from bloat due to internal parasites? No. They are one in the same. Diet in this case being the "stressor". Is bloat only caused by these parasites, which in turn only become a problem if the fish is too stressed, which in turn can result from any number of causes, including diet, excess salts, etc? As far as what has been proven, yes. Although, some tend to argue bloat can be bacterial in nature. I tend to agree with experts who feel bacterial complications are secondary in occurance only after the parasite has intially infiltrated the host. Breeding aggression will bring about the protozoans problems.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Thanks Johannes - very interesting reading. One thought that springs to mind, and which could be of course, but might equally be good;- Do these protozoans go through a free-swimming stage as part of their reproduction ? And if so, would UV filtration be an effective addition to help minimise their presence in an enclosed system such as an aquarium ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Visser Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 UV filtration is great but as far as I understand protozoans are internal :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Visser Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 can a farming med for bloat be adapted or contain what is necessary to alleviate problem? will be interesting :roll: I need to get a equivalent for clout but need to match the main/ active ingredient 100% as all the other ingredients not needed will course more harm than good. Meds should always be used as a last resort as they do damage the internal organs of the fish in many instances. :-? Have put in a order for some from the states and hope I get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 UV filtration is great but as far as I understand protozoans are internal :roll: I thought I had replied to this but I dont see my reply so it must have failed. I dont know that much about fish disease, but have heard of some parasites that have to go through a free-swimming stage as part of their reproductive cycle, before re-attaching to a host (is white spot like this, i think ?) - I have also just read though, that UV filtration inhibits the active ingredient of metronidozole and such other bloat treatments, and should be shut off when treating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 THE BIG MOVE STRESS Was dew to water quality/ condition /Copper levels that were too high etc in the new house /Tanks (landscape) that were not set up as they were previously Just wondering how you figured out the copper was causing trouble? How do you test the copper levels in the water? The place we've just bought has a brand new garage, and new copper pipe going to the tap I was planning on using to fill my tanks! The house is 40 years old, so perhaps the water from the old pipes will be safer? How did you get around it? I'm planning on setting up rainwater tanks as soon as money allows, but it won't be for a while yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 I believe, Tropheus bloat is different to Malawi bloat. Firstly its a lot harder to treat too. Treatment, If you can get hold of drugs that have metronidazole/ dimetridazole,{protozan} use in combination with nifyrpirinol/oxytetracycline{anti bacterial} & salt. Just a note on diet, you have to remember tropheus have small stomach & long intestines & naturally graze all day. vegie diet is a must as a rule. ps; very informative posting to Johannes, also sounds like a nice tropheus collection you have too. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hi You actually need a microscope to tell what your dealing with.White droppings is a good sign of hex and bugs can be id that way..Many then are simular but at least you know it's in the simular type problems. They are every where in the tank and as fish feed they take them in.. They..This will shock many...Go through sumps and infect every tank and every fish.Need most likely 1 micron filter to collect..Maybe smaller.. I know of one recently got food from a pond and then lost all his fish room stocks via the sump.. UV will only affect bacteria thats passing through the unit..Thats why huge water turnovers are required to be affective.. Up to 1 turnover every hour i have seen written.. Also you will never kill them all as they to live right through the tank and if conditons are wrong the fish get sick.. To sumps..If having to treat say for hex and needs several days of repeats then the treatment costs in big set up is can be more that the fish value.. I never even go to another tank with out washing hands and drying first..These bugs can spread so easy and had to actually know fish are sick till to late..Once you see not right usually to late.. I have also got some young growing on and look forward to see them breeding .. Good Luck with your fishies....Cheers Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 I don't know about bloat but I have used neguvon (sheep dip) to kill gill and skin flukes in goldfish. 3% bath for 3 minutes. I think the use of many ag chems is ok but you need to get the dose right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hi Negavon can be dangerous to many cats like bristlenoses { kill them and many ancristus } and dose rates are Mostly hit and miss as Even bayer the makers have done little on fish ..Just a bit on salmonoides A 1/4 gram can treat 300 L but has to be watched for reactions as all fish will react in different maners... Cheers Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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