New to sumps

[lmsmith]

Ok, somehow I've managed to acquire 8 tanks but no sumps. I've decided that I need a sump, if nothing else to learn what I'm doing. I have a 3ft tank that has a hole drilled in the end, and it has a big space underneath.

I know I'll need an overflow box or something, and was thinking of getting a 100L or so plastic container for the sump. I'll put the heater in there, and presumably some sort of filtration.

I have a few questions:

1. How do I attach an internal overflow box? Silicone to the side, or what? I don't want a hang on one, it seems pretty silly when I have a hole already drilled. Is there another option?

2. What sort of pump do I use to get the water back to the tank? Anyone want to draw me a pic to show me how they work, and how you attach them to everything?

3. What sort of media should I use in my plastic tub? Will the tub be ok? Do I just dump it all in, or should there be a system? :-?

4. Anything else it sounds like I'm missing?

Thanks guys

[davidb]

1. How do I attach an internal overflow box? Silicone to the side, or what? I don't want a hang on one, it seems pretty silly when I have a hole already drilled. Is there another option?

. If you have the holde drilled in the side, you can use a full internal overflow box, or a small internal overflow box if the hole is drilled near the top of the tank. Your other option is to have an external durso, or a combination of an internal box/ external durso.

[lmsmith]

Wow, awesome thanks so much. That pic looks pretty much spot on with what I want. Now, where do I get a bulkhead and what can I use as an intake strainer? My partner works at Bunnings, so it'd be heaps cheaper not to get fishy brands and go for hardware store stuff.

It will be used for FW for now, so I was thinking a wet/dry might be perfect.

Here's what I thought I might do, think it'll work? :-?

Any idea what sort of cost I'm looking at for all this? I'd like the challenge to do it for under $50 - how much are pumps?

[TM]

Under $50 Will have to get some bargins then.

Is noise a problem? If not then you can use 19mm irrigation gear.

you will need elbows and gromets/top hats

Holes size required is 22mm from memory.

Then just use 19mm pipe to carry water to sump, i would think you could get that for under $30.00

Water to the tanks you could use 13mm irrigation gear.

Otherwise RX style bulkhead fittings could be up around $10 each plus pipes and other fittings etc

Couple of ideas.

[lmsmith]

That irrigation stuff looks good. Why is it noisier? And how noisy are we talking?

[spoon]

depending on the design (note there are lots of tips out there for reducing noise ) u know the noise ur bath makes when u pull the plug out it wont get ane worse than that! lol u mite have to play around to get it to an acceptable noise level for ur living room but putting it in the bedroom isnt reccommended

[TM]

Spoon is right, depends on where it is and how much water you are wanting to pump through.

To make it not as loud you would just need to spend more, like the durso above.

[David R]

1. How do I attach an internal overflow box? Silicone to the side, or what? I don't want a hang on one, it seems pretty silly when I have a hole already drilled. Is there another option?

If the hole is at the bottom of the tank and you're not fussed about looks or noise you could have a pipe with a 90* bend and a vertical pipe cut off at the right height for the water level.

Your drawing doesn't really show a wet/dry filter as there is no "dry" part. The more media you have above the water level with the water trickling through it the better. Here's how the sump on my 5' is set up;

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/ ... /Sump2.jpg

It wouldn't be hard to DIY something like this, you could use plastic plant pots or pond plant baskets to hold the media.

[lmsmith]

If the hole is at the bottom of the tank and you're not fussed about looks or noise you could have a pipe with a 90* bend and a vertical pipe cut off at the right height for the water level.

Your drawing doesn't really show a wet/dry filter as there is no "dry" part. The more media you have above the water level with the water trickling through it the better. Here's how the sump on my 5' is set up;

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/ ... /Sump2.jpg

It wouldn't be hard to DIY something like this, you could use plastic plant pots or pond plant baskets to hold the media.

Mmmm...my computer drawing skills suck, sorry. Here's a pic I drew, this might explain it better.

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp88/laurenmariesmith/photo-30.jpg

All of the filter wool is above water, and to spread out the flow, I'll experiment with a 'dribble tray' where the water coming out of the tank will land on to spread it out. Should the bioballs be above water too, or would the filter wool be ok with the bio balls below water?

I'm not sure what you mean about a hole in the bottom of the tank, mine is about 4cm from the top.

I've priced it all up, and excluding the pump, the pipe for the return (I've got heaps of this lying around) and media, I can do it for under $40. Including the pump, it should still only be around $70 or so.

So, my materials so far:

1x 42L plastic container

2 x 1 metre 22mm bute pipe

1 x 22mm bulkhead

1 x 22mm tee

1 x plug (will act as PVC pipe cap in the pic)

3 x 22mm elbow joins

I will also need an acrylic drip tray or something similar to spread out the flow, and some sort of strainer to go on the inside of the tank to stop fishies getting sucked into the sump.

In terms of pumps, the pump will be about 75cm below the top of the tank. I can get a 1000lph pump pretty cheap, but this will put my water flow at about 550lph by the time I worry about the head height. Is there a way to work out how much 'pump' you need? And am I right in thinking I can just hook a regulator to it to reduce or increase the flow?

Anything else major I'm missing? Or else I'm going to go shopping tomorrow....

[suphew]

I have build a few sumps and a couple of durso's. The design shown is almost right, but needs a reducer down the pipe a bit, people often complain that their durso's are noisy, and it's aways because they don't build or tune them correctly.

Here is a link to the original durso stand pipe web site which has the full and correct instructions.

Make sure you use a bulkhead (sometimes called tank fittings) for the hole in your tank, they are cheap, bunnings has them, there's no point at all mucking round with any thing else. You wont save any money but you will risk losing lots of water.

In your sump, you need to have the pump on or near the bottom of the tank, put an extra divider in and have the water go under the first then over the second with the pump sitting by itself in the last chamber. You also need to design the sump so the normal water level is low enough that if the power goes off the sump can hold all the water that syphons back down the pumps pipe work.

I strongly suggest that you hook up with someone who has a sump system and go and have a look, there are lots of things you need to consider, some of which if you get them wrong will cause a lot of water to end up on your floor.

[TM]

Is there only 1 tank?

I thought you wanted to hook 8 up

Ok, somehow I've managed to acquire 8 tanks but no sumps. I've decided that I need a sump, if nothing else to learn what I'm doing. I have a 3ft tank that has a hole drilled in the end, and it has a big space underneath.

[suphew]

I see your in Wellington, drop me a pm and come see my overflow and sump.

[lmsmith]

Lol, no way I'm trying to set up 8 tanks on 1 sump, that's way out of my league.

Thanks suphew, I'll drop you a PM. I didn't realise the pump had to be on the bottom. I kinda thought I could stick it halfway up the wall. Doesn't matter anyway, putting in another divider is no prob. I also realise about setting it up so it can't overflow - the plan is to set it up so the sump can hold enough that neither the tank or the sump can overflow because the water level will get below the outlet before the sump gets full.

What's the purpose of the reducer?

[suphew]

What's the purpose of the reducer?

Read the durso web site, it explains it all.

[lmsmith]

Thanks for the replies guys, and thanks so much for the offer Mystic, I'll get in touch with you after xmas. Great to see you on here again!

I read the article, and I can't find anything about the reducer (apart from it saying you should have one)

Next, I convert the 1 inch pipe to a 1 ¼ inch pipe using a reducer bushing. (There is a small section of 1 inch PVC pipe linking these two parts). The reducer bushing is then inserted into a coupling. If you have access to a reducing male adapter that is a good option to use. It is 1 inch male by 1 ¼ inch slip fitting.

Is there something I'm missing?

[davidb]

Thanks for the replies guys, and thanks so much for the offer Mystic, I'll get in touch with you after xmas. Great to see you on here again!

I read the article, and I can't find anything about the reducer (apart from it saying you should have one)

Is there something I'm missing?

Makes it quiet

[suphew]

Read the durso web site, it explains it all.

Sorry the old site used to have all the tuning information with the DIY info, and it was in there. I guess it is buried in the FAQ section now. The reducer gives back pressure to the top of the standpipe, you can't put the reduction too far down or it affects the (partial) syphon and causes a flushing noise (water level going up and down in the overflow). You also can't use the tap to make the reduction because of the risk of things catching on the partially closed tap

[lmsmith]

Alright....so I went to Bunnings today and got everything I need. I got:

2 x 1m 22mm Bute pipe (main drainage pipe)

SKU 611578

1 x Bute Tee (connects outlet from tank to downpipe and allows for the plug to let more or less air through)

SKU 611244

4 x Bute Elbow (to go round the corners of the tank)

SKU 611074

1 x Bute Plug 22mm (with hole drilled to alter water flow)

SKU 651977

1 x Bute Plug 15mm (for end of spray bar)

SKU 651953

1 x 1m 15mm Bute pipe (drilled to make spray bar)

SKU 611554

1 x Bute coupling inline (to connect spray bar to pipe from pump)

SKU 610872

1 x Bute pipe clip (to support everything)

SKU 611529

1 x Durastone Stack and Nest 42L Bin (sump)

SKU 273377

2m 12.5mm clear vinyl tube (to get water from pump to tank)

SKU 379906

1 x Accent 1000LPH pond pump

SKU 550449

I've included the SKU numbers in case there is anyone out there who is interested in recreating it.

What else I've used that I didn't need to buy:

Filter media

Acrylic to make baffles for the sump (I'm going to have two so the water has to go under the first one and over the second)

Electrical tape

2 x flanges (to support pipe on either side of the glass)

Tap aerator (as a grate so fishies don't get sucked up)

The bute pipe and fittings I have used are used for internal plumbing, and the fittings need to be crimped into place to stop leaks. I used the crimping gear available to hire for a nominal fee. It does mean that they can't be taken apart easily, but they also are not going to leak.

Overflow from the tank

Showing tap aerator

Plumbing

Outlet into sump

DIY Spraybar

I've had it running with no filter media for a few hours and have set the pump at a perfect level where the pump and the overflow stay in equilibrium. To stop the sump overflowing if the pump breaks, the sump will be at a low enough level that the overflow will be out of the water but the sump will not quite be full. To stop the tank overflowing if the overflow gets blocked or breaks, the pump will be sitting on a ledge in the sump so it will stop pumping if the sump empties (before the tank overflows). It took a couple of hours of fiddling to get the levels right, but hopefully it will work out ok.

All I have to do now is put the media in the sump and let it cycle, before I take out my old filter.

[richms]

Ouch, bute is expensive!

I found the best prices on the Hansen fittings was at RD1 - Bunnings didn't have much of a range, and neither did the Wairau Mitre10 mega - no bulkheads with a threaded hole on the inside - just the ones with a hole that is no use.

Mitre10 mega in botany had more and that's where I got the one I have now from.

[suphew]

Your Durso isn't going to work from how it looks in the picture's. You need to have an over flow box and an elbow on the inlet to the durso. I also can't see any reducer as discussed a few posts ago. If it's quite and your happy with it then all is good, but I suspect it's going to sound like someones draining a bath day and night.

[Ira]

It'll work, but it's not really a durso. As long as you're not putting much water through it, it should be fine. Dursos just have their noisy threshold much higher, mine at 4000-5000 liters per hour made heaps of noise.