TM Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 Just playing with the temp of a fishroom. Heating is a fan heater hooked up to a siemens controller. No other heating present. There are also two fans blowing air round to stop temp layering. Air temp is about 30 at top and 28 at bottom but tanks only seam to get to about 25, this just doesn't seam right. Question is to get a temp of say 25 in the tanks what would the room temp have to be?? What are the temps in your own room. Both in the tank and air temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 If left long enough the water and air temperature will be the same. There is less mass in the air and the warm air escapes when you walk in but there is more mass in the water so it acts as a heat sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted October 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 If left long enough the water and air temperature will be the same. There is less mass in the air and the warm air escapes when you walk in but there is more mass in the water so it acts as a heat sink. Well thats what i thought, well pretty close to that. Didn'tt think there would be such a difference. Might check round the door to make sure there isn't cold air coming in and check the range on the temp controller. Will leave it over night again and re check in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 The tanks will be slightly cooler due to evaporation, up until the point the room's air is totally saturated. But, assuming your room isn't super humid and there isn't a huge amount of airflow across the tanks I wouldn't imagine it should be more than a degree or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 The temperatures don't need to be the same and after years of trying to prevent temperature layering I discovered it can actually be useful. If the tanks are where you want them all is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hi Using fans to move air is just lowering the temp..Air fans are not good at keeping an even temp anyway as regardles of air flow the hight up you check the hotter it is..My room near top is often 45c yet bottom tanks are 27c... I to used to try to even out but gave up as most electrical equipment to pack up because its to damp..Even electrical shorts start happening...Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 With a fish room the thermostat is normally in the air and therefore controls the air temperature. If you get too much temperature layering it can be a very unpleasant place to spend much time in. Because the mass of the air is low it is quick to heat up or cool down but the water takes a lot longer. The more water you have in there the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 so Alan, your suggesting even more Killi tanks are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 It depends how good your wife is at physics---At least they aren't in the sewing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Air holds stuff all heat, thats why fan heaters are so bad at heating a room, they make hot air that rapidly becomes cold air because there is so little heat in it. If you put a heater in the tanks to get them to temperature there should be no loss of heat because of the air being warm too, but to try to heat water that way will take days and days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted October 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 That all helps. The temp of the top tanks is now 26 and air temp beside those tanks is 27. Found a good gap round the door that has been fixed now and that i think has made a big difference. Don't want to go down the track of heating tanks as the cost would be lots more than heating the room, also condensation would be really bad if tanks were heated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Glad to hear you've sorted it out. Do you have lids on your tanks? Is the room really humid (silly question I know!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Just chuck a heater into the tank to get it up to the room temperature. If the heating is just resistive electric (which is is) then the room will follow the tank temperature anyway, so the cost will be the same overall. If you had a heatpump it would of course work out more expensive to use resistive heaters in a tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted October 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Glad to hear you've sorted it out. Do you have lids on your tanks? Is the room really humid (silly question I know!) Yip lids on all the tanks, room doesn't feel that humid nothing is damp at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted October 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Just chuck a heater into the tank to get it up to the room temperature. If the heating is just resistive electric (which is is) then the room will follow the tank temperature anyway, so the cost will be the same overall. If you had a heatpump it would of course work out more expensive to use resistive heaters in a tank Don't really get what you mean. Fan heater is just the same as a heat pump really, both put warm air into the room. Throwing a heater into the tanks defeats the purpose of heating the room does it not?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 No, because the tanks will still convect heat to the air in the room. The room is a sealed box, electricity goes in, and heat leaks out of it. The total electricity in will equal the heat coming out once its all at the same temperature inside. The heaters in the tank will just let that happen faster at a greater use of electricity for that time period. All resistive heaters are 100% efficiant so it doesnt matter if you have a fan heater, oil column heater, a ceramic heater or heaters in the tanks, the total heat added to the room is equal to the joules or kilowatt hours taken from the power A heatpump is nothing like a fan heater because they are 4 times more efficiant (give or take) so if you heated the room with that, then it would be stupid to have heaters in the tanks as well with their 100% efficiancy, but it still may help to get the tanks to temperature quicker then just relying on heat from the air in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted October 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 A heatpump is nothing like a fan heater because they are 4 times more efficiant (give or take) so if you heated the room with that, then it would be stupid to have heaters in the tanks as well with their 100% efficiancy, but it still may help to get the tanks to temperature quicker then just relying on heat from the air in the room. Just trying to find the cheapest option to heat the room. The intial problem has been fixed so no drama there. Roughly worked out prices for different options and found fan heater to be the cheapest. May not be the most efficiant option but the most cost effective at this stage. Say there are 20 tanks in the room options could be 1x 2000w fan heater, at this stage it looks like it runs for about 4 - 6min per hour. ($29.50) 20x glass heaters at $15 - $20 each, may get away with 10 heaters ($150 - $200) 1x Heat pump 3.6kw $600 - $1200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 If your runtime is that low then your doing very well for making it cheap. - thats coming in at about $1 a day by my calculations. would be happy if my tanks were that cheap to heat. I would just be concerned about the time to recover from any water changes etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted October 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 I would just be concerned about the time to recover from any water changes etc Thats the problem, thinking of either hooking up water to the room both hot and cold and using a mixer, or a 200ltr barrel with a heater put in the night before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 I used to heat 50-60 tanks at least 600x600mm with a one kw heater that hardly ever came on. If it is well insulated it takes little heat to keap it warm. You lose heat mainly from the air when you enter the room (which is cheap to warm again, and from water changes (which takes a lot more heat (before or after water changing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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