Fenriswolf Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I got some borneo suckers for a tank I'm setting up for my mother (to save her poor goldfish from his stinky geo tank), since they're seem to be the only genuine cold water bottom feeders available in NZ. Well there were various dramas but it turns out now I'm giving her back her ~7cm goldfish with a smaller comet and a small fantail. And this was not what I was planning but I'm actually pretty happy to be ending up with 2 large comets (~12cm incl tails), 1 small comet and 1 small fantail. And I'm keeping the suckers cause they are awesome! It's so funny, I thought they were ugly, now I spend ages just watching them and periodically exclaiming to my boyfriend if they do something exciting like actually detach from the glass and swim :lol: ANYWAY, having read up on river tanks and borneo suckers I am enraptured with the idea of a big river tank. We have a large window upstairs that would be awesome to set up a 1800x600x600 (ish) tank with a horde of borneo suckers and goldfish. I really like blackmoores so I'd like to have maybe 4 comets, 2 fantails and 2 blackmoores as well as a number (to be confirmed) of suckers. Now, a river set up with borneo suckers in mind would require pretty major water flow so I'd need some hardout obstacles for my fantails and blackmoores to hide behind. I'm also really enjoying my planted tanks so like the idea of some plants too. This wouldn't be happening for a year or so but I really like the idea, so... Who has some advice for me? Some ideas that they think would be cool? Some landscaping they think would be pretty or specific hardware they think would be useful? Just after some input as I love the idea but it's a pretty major project and we have some big work coming up on our house (lets just say our house is in need of repiling, reroofing, waterblasting and repainting and that's just the start...) so I've decided to be ultra patient and work through this to the nth degree. Thanks in advance! :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I would much rather see comets in a pond. They are fast fish that like to swim. Even a 1800 length I feel isn't fair to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 A pair of pond pumps, like Laguna PJ5000s, one on top of the other in, say the back left corner pointing the length of the tank should give it a nice swirl, get the whole tank flowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Personally I would reconsider the combination of fish.... you have very-fast-water fish combined with slow-swimming still-water fish and some fast-swimming still-water fish. No matter what the tank is like it is not going to suit everyone, and possibly stress them. That aside, a fast river tank sounds fun to create Borneo suckers are so cute, I get tempted to have them in my tank as there are no native algae eaters.... I am just such a damned native fish purist.... I assume you have seen this: http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it I am working on a riffle tank for my native torrentfish and bluegill bullies. Think of a braided gravelly river, no plants, and some areas of SERIOUS flow. I would love to do a big riffle tank but am restricted at the moment to a 60x30x30cm. Then again the pumps required to get that flow in a big tank would be massive.... The tank has gravel substrate with a number of large rocks making caves as they like to hide, but also to hide the pumps and to baffle the flow to make areas of slightly quieter water. I didn't have a pump for the first week, then I put this tiny pump that does 300lt/hr. Would you believe the fish would take turns to sit 1cm away from the outlet VIBRATING in the current! it was insane! So obviously they needed even more current. Last night I found another pump that does 540lt/hr and added that, so the total turnover is 840 litres per hour in a 40 litre volume!!! So now the torrentfish are doing what I would expect... hiding from the flow.... kinda boring but it is what they do! Not a great deal is known about torrentfish, but it is believed that they leave the riffles at night to feed in the quieter pools above and below the riffle. One person I was talking to who had these had the pump on a timer so it switched off in the evenings and back on in the mornings. He found they did indeed come out more then. I don't know if your borneo suckers have a similar cycle or if they stay in the rapids all the time. So, the moral of the story is you will need WAAAAY bigger pumps than you ever imagined would be necessary! A torrentfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I like the idea of the river tank, but I would ditch the goldfish and go with a smaller tank, with the same length. That way you could actually generate some decent flow with a couple of large pumps and you would have less trouble keeping the water clean. If the flow was only moderate it might work with a big school of White Cloud Minnows ? Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted February 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Any recommendations as to where I could rehome my comets? I got the big guys with a 70L tank , they're being replanted into a 180L next week. I might keep the fantails for a separate tank as they're pretty cute and too unco to need as much room as comets! :lol: I'm happy to give them away to a good home if anyone with a pond wants them? Personally I would reconsider the combination of fish.... you have very-fast-water fish combined with slow-swimming still-water fish and some fast-swimming still-water fish. No matter what the tank is like it is not going to suit everyone, and possibly stress them. :-? True... Never easy is it?! :lol: I assume you have seen this: http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it Yeah, I'm so in love with the "river tank 2004" So, the moral of the story is you will need WAAAAY bigger pumps than you ever imagined would be necessary! Stop being so realistic! Makes sense of course, I'm just playing with the idea at the moment *siigh* I am working on a riffle tank for my native torrentfish and bluegill bullies. Think of a braided gravelly river, no plants, and some areas of SERIOUS flow. I would love to do a big riffle tank but am restricted at the moment to a 60x30x30cm. Then again the pumps required to get that flow in a big tank would be massive.... A torrentfish That sounds awesome! The torrentfish are pretty cool looking, hiding's OK so long as it's not 24/7 I like the idea of the river tank, but I would ditch the goldfish and go with a smaller tank, with the same length. That way you could actually generate some decent flow with a couple of large pumps and you would have less trouble keeping the water clean. If the flow was only moderate it might work with a big school of White Cloud Minnows ? Cheers Ian Basically what everyone's saying is the very specialisation of borneo suckers means what makes them happy makes pretty much any other type of fish unhappy? Makes sense if they live in waterfalls and suchlike. I don't object to the idea of just lots of suckers I suppose, it just seems weird having no mid-strata fish. But that's kind of the point of a extra fast flowing river tank eh? So I could have something like 1800x300x300 and um... some amount... of borneo suckers? Can you get a few different species in NZ or not so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doch Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 i run a 3000lph pump in my 505 litre tank and the fish love it i have put spray bars around the back and sides to get max water movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I have room in my pond if anyone is coming over this way? Anyone attending the Wine Festival next weekend? It is Blues Brews & BBQs beer fest today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted February 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I have room in my pond if anyone is coming over this way? Anyone attending the Wine Festival next weekend? It is Blues Brews & BBQs beer fest today. Bah, Blenheim's so close yet so far away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 i run a 3000lph pump in my 505 litre tank and the fish love it i have put spray bars around the back and sides to get max water movement I have a laguna PJ5000 in my 440 L four foot tank in the back left corner pointing to the right. That's enough to get the water swirling at about a half a foot to a foot per second across the front of the tank right to left. So, two of them like I said earlier I'd guess would be good enough to get the water moving up around 1-2 fps. Maybe throw a couple seio or similar powerheads in the mix somewhere to get the swirling even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doch Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 can we see a pic of your tank ira love to see the set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Ira and Doch, what sort of fish do you have in your fast current tanks? This morning I was saying to my friend that now the current is right the torrentfish are spending all their time hiding (expected behaviour, not that the current is too strong). He then pointed out that there were two fish sitting on rocks in the front.... damn they are well camouflaged! Fenriswolf, you say about it being strange not having mid-water fish. In a way we are conditioned to the idea that the main fish in a tank swim in the midwater and there might be a few low/ground level and maybe a few high level ones. We are also conditioned to the idea that they should be bright and showy, or if not they should be large. I went through bit of a mind-set change going from goldfish (iridescent and bright) to native fish (small and grey/brown mostly). The activity of them totally made up for the lack of colours and you start to see so much depth when before they looked plain that it makes the traditional bright fish seem unnecessarily gaudy! Also a lot of the native fish hang out on the bottom of the tank. I thought that would make for a rather dull, empty looking tank, but it really doesn't. They are so active and interesting it doesn't matter where they hang out! From what little I saw of borneo suckers they are so active a tank of them alone would be interesting. How big do they get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doch Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 hi stella i have malawi cichlids supplied by ryan 12 demasoni 5 yellow labs 5 maleri peacocks and 2 bristlenose but i have plenty of rocks for them to hide in if they dont want to get in the current Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskas Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I got a pair of borneo suckers have no idea if they male or female but they are the coolest lil fish!! Apparently they grow to about 5-6cm, so not huge. Mine change colours in their fins - going from plain to irredescent-ish blue with red nostrils occasionally!! They are currently in a tropical tank with guppies, platies and glowlights and are doing fine. They often "play" swimming around all over each other and have heaps of personality! I would love to get another tank and set it up as a cool water with them and leopardfish :lol: Just need to find a bit more space... o and another tank :lol: Anyone ever tried them out in a pond? I would give it a go if i had a whole lot of them, although that would mean i wouldn't see them i guess...? I hardly see the goldies as the water keeps going green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Ira and Doch, what sort of fish do you have in your fast current tanks? Bristlenoses, 3 severums, a redspot and a goldspot and a black shark. The current actually isn't particularly fast. Not like the fish need to swim hard to stay in place, they just kinda point into the current and paddle their pectorals slightly faster. Half to 1 foot per second would take about 4-8 seconds for the fish to swim the length of the tank, and you can imagine that's not even halfhearted bored wandering speed for a 9" fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Anyone thought of building an artifical 'rapid'. Sort of a long shallow tub with small pools and steps that the water is pumped up and flows down. The whole thing empties onto a small tank at the bottom and get recirculated again. Might be an interesting environment for borneo suckers, small plecos, native bullys and those torrent fish? The water over the little rapids would be quite shallow and fast flowing, not enough to stop the fish getting up them, but lots of spots of fast current for the fish that like that. Thoughts? Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 It would be cool to do something like that for the torries and bluegills (and koaro *when* I get some again!). I imagine it would need to be quite long and shallow (as you say) to get the right sort of flow, and definitely have it draining into a reservoir and returning to the pump. I think in a tank of water the flow bouncing off the ends and doing the whirlpool thing kinda baffles it. Then again if it was really kick-ass flow you would never see the fish.... There is a 10 foot tank at massey I so want to get my hands on to do a similar thing with.... It would be long enough to get some uber flow at one end and quiet areas at the other. I could have torries and bluegills and koaro and inanga and all the other bullies and small kokopu and and and.... ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I think in a tank of water the flow bouncing off the ends and doing the whirlpool thing kinda baffles it. I dunno, I think it's easier to get a good current with a whirlpool than big pumps pumping from one end to the other. Let's take my tank for example. Say it takes 8 seconds for the water to flow from one side to the other. That's a flow of about 400L every 8 seconds which is 180,000 LPH Let's say only half of the water is really flowing at that velocity and call it 90,000 LPH. That's a lot of pumps to match that if you're not doing a whirlpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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