jayci Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 where can I get some glutaraldehyde from. I am wanting to trial it as a flourish excell substuite. A 2.6% solution would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Could you let me know if you find some? Iv also been looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naz_Nomad Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Surely you jest? This is the gluteraldehyde that causes eye irritation, dizziness and headaches in humans? I dread to think what it's do to fish swimming in it. Is it really safe to use? Where did you get the information from? To get some - hmmm... it's used as a fixative in labs, as embalming fluid (or part of the stuff they embalm with), disinfectant and as a specimen preservative in hospitals. Your guess is as good as mine as the where to get some from outside of a hospital or lab. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 You are correct Naz - this is the stuff you refer to. My husband is a chemistry teacher - has no idea where to get this stuff, its not a chemical that is around for general use and it sounds like its just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naz_Nomad Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 We have it in hospitals, but it isn't for public consumption so to speak. In fact, we have to use fume cabinets to handle it, though we probably have it in higher concentrations than asked for here. I did look on Wikipedia - apparently, so they say, it is the active ingredient in Flourish Excell. Hmmm... That sounds like dodgy information, especially when you read this little article.. http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substanc ... es/46.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Maybe when you mix it with the rest of the chemicals or whatever in flourish excell it neutralises the toxic effects of it. Whos got a bottle of flourish excell and what does the label say as far as ingredients go or does the label not say much. :roll: IME the labels generally don't give a lot away in the percentages/breakdown of the amounts they use probably to stop people like me having them made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I found this on the web http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant ... e-nh4.html The active ingredient in excel is polycycloglutaracetal, which is patented by Seachem. Polycycloglutaracetal is derived from glutaraldehyde, which is toxic and commonly used to sterilize medical equipment. According to Seachem, polycycloglutaracetal's molecular makeup contains a 5 carbon chain (glutaraldehyde is C5H8O2) which is accessible to plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayci Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Surely you jest? This is the gluteraldehyde that causes eye irritation, dizziness and headaches in humans? I dread to think what it's do to fish swimming in it. With the concentrations used it is not harmful to fish, only algae. What I am wanting is equal in concentration to flourish excell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayci Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Polycycloglutaracetal seems to be a made up word by seachem. Can't find any material safety data sheets on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The container says that it contains polycycloglutaracetal but no concentration given. It says it is a source of bioavailable organic carbon and reduces ferric to ferrous ions of iron. Warns against eating, drinking or getting in eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 This product was "recalled" from hospitals as it used to be used in Operating Theatres and ED's all over the place to sterilise all sorts of things. Used to have buckets of it floating all over the show. Problem was it used to "sterilise" all the staff as well often with all sorts of nasty respitory illness and Cancers. Now it is only used under "controlled"conditions. You may be able to get some from a Hospital grade pharmacy...but I doubt it. You could always try. HTH Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I went searching the Seachem website and found an article about Plants and CO2, it somewhat explains the available carbon molecules. http://www.seachem.com/support/Articles ... arium.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naz_Nomad Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The molecule chains for the active ingredients in Flourish Excel shown in the article Visionmassif linked to are different from the ones I have found for gluteraldehyde, so Adodge's suggestion that the gluteraldehyde in the product is changed in some way during the alchemy of manufacture seems quite possibly right. I have also found a nice study here... http://www.oehha.org/air/chronic_rels/pdf/111308.pdf That shows Gluteraldehyde is toxic to just about everything. The only place I can find a suggestion it is safe to drop it into your aquarium is on Wikipedia. I know we banned it in hospitals except under strict controlled handling conditions because it was toxic, antagonised asthma and was carcinogenic. It was a huge health issue ten or fifteen years ago and I suggest buying it (even if it is available) and using it as a cheap aquarium fertiliser would be a very bad move in the long run without a lot of protective equipment that might just make Flourish Excel seem cheaper and slightly safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Or you could just use CO2 injection... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naz_Nomad Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Or you could just use CO2 injection... Which costs the price of some active yeast, sugar and water from the tap. Set up is the price of a plastic bottle and some air hose plus a bubble counter thingy from trademe for about five bucks. Better than Gluteraldehyde, only dodgy when you fill the bottle too much, the mixture foams along the tube and your tank suddenly turns extremely cloudy, your pH plummets and you end up doing midnight water changes. That didn't happen to me, honest. But, back on topic, anything is better than Gluteraldehyde in my opinion. I worked with it too long to want anyone else to have the smell. Nasty stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Someone mentioned sticking a small bottle filled with water to catch any overflows so you can overcome the co2 bubble over.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naz_Nomad Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 That works. I added a specimen catcher from out suction units at the hospital. Which of course, I didn't steal at all. Does the same job. Never had another accident and there was the occasional dribble of foam in the catcher. I gave up in the end and started using Flourish Excel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discusguru Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 My advice is if you can't afford to pay for it, then forget about it. The plants will still grow. No point trying to mix something up which could be pottentially harmful and kill your fish and even you just to save some money. If it is as simple as mixing some chemicals together then it won't be that expensive to buy. Injected co2 is not that expensive, only the innitial set up. Just my oppinion, ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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