Green and Golden Bell Frogs

[carla]

I would like to start a little discussion here (and maybe the DOC lurkers could tell us a bit about their point of view too) about the sale and distribution of tadpoles of Bell Frogs.

We all know that these are not a native frog and we also all know that frogs are wiped out by the chytrid fungus.

I have found a lot of articles on the subject, of which I will post a few links and I have also found each year that pet shops and trademe are selling tadpoles all over the country.

What are your views on this and is there any new research being done on that fungus?

Should we sell tadpoles, as the frogs ARE endangered, or not as they could spread the fungus to our natives?

http://www.otago.ac.nz/zoology/research/bishop/frogs/

http://www.oranawildlifepark.co.nz/frog_crisis/frog.htm

http://www.teara.govt.nz/TheBush/FishFr ... Frogs/3/en

http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/page.aspx?id=33160

http://www.biol.canterbury.ac.nz/conser ... herald.htm

[bdspider]

It would be sad for kids to not have the opportunity to keep tadpoles and watch them grow. I always had tadpoles and frogs as a kid, got them from grandparent's farm.

I refuse to pay pet store prices for frogs and tadpoles though

[davidb]

I think that frog leeping is fine as long as you are careful. Chytrid fungus kills frogs and that includes the golden bell frogs themselves. Thus, as long as the tadpoles are sourced from aquariums where frogs have not recently died you should be fine. NEVER RELEASE PET FROGS INTO THE WILD THOUGH!!!

[livingart]

had some of our frogs on property measured, weighed, skin swabs etc by otago uni students who were doing data recording for final assignment,

we talked about pet trade in frogs and tadpoles, the only concern they and i would have would be in the possible spreading of chytrid fungus around the country

as david said dont release pet frogs

[wilson]

as david said dont release pet frogs

im getting one soon

wouldnt ever let it go into wild

[livingart]

breed your own blowflies

amazing to watch the frogs stalk then leap and eat them

lucky frogs aren't 6 feet long

[carla]

Today on BBC online: Frog killer fungus 'breakthrough'

New Zealand scientists have found what appears to be a cure for the disease that is responsible for wiping out many of the world's frog populations.

Chloramphenicol, currently used as an eye ointment for humans, may be a lifesaver for the amphibians, they say.

The researchers found frogs bathed in the solution became resistant to the killer disease, chytridiomycosis.

The fungal disease has been blamed for the extinction of one-third of the 120 species lost since 1980.

Fearful that chytridiomycosis might wipe out New Zealand's critically endangered Archey's frog (Leiopelma archeyi), the researchers have been hunting for a compound that would kill off the disease's trigger, the fungus Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis.

They tested the chloramphenicol candidate on two species introduced to New Zealand from Australia: the brown tree frog (Litoria ewingii) and the southern bell frog (L. raniformis).

"We found that we could cure them completely of chytrids," said Phil Bishop from the University of Otago.

"And even when they were really sick in the control group, we managed to bring them back almost from the dead."

"You could put them on their back and they just wouldn't right themselves, they would just lie there. You could then treat them with chloramphenicol and they would come right," Dr Bishop explained.

Captive solution

The researchers tried using chloramphenicol as both an ointment, applied to the frogs' backs, and as a solution.

They found that placing the animals in the solution delivered the best results. The team has admitted it was surprised by the outcome.

"You don't usually expect antibiotics to do anything to fungi at all. And it does. We don't understand why it does, but it does," said Russell Poulter.

Professor Poulter, the molecular biologist who hunted down chloramphenicol, added: "It's also got the great advantage that it's incredibly cheap."

The scientists are now making their research widely known ahead of formal publication in a science journal because of the pressing need for a safe and effective treatment for the chytrid disease.

The blow that chytrid has dealt to the frog population is already immense.

The disease has probably accounted for one-third of all the losses in amphibian species to date, says Professor Rick Speare, an expert in amphibian diseases who works with the University of Otago's frog research group.

These losses are huge - and this is in addition to other threats such as habitat destruction, climate change, pollution and hunting.

Since 1980, more than 120 amphibian species have disappeared; and according to the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums, in the near future many more species are in danger of vanishing.

"We are losing an awful lot of these creatures now and if we don't do something intelligent, then we're going to lose an awful lot more," said Professor Poulter.

But a hopeful finding is that the introduced frogs that have been infected with chytrids are now more resistant to further infections.

"We haven't quite understood how that could happen," said Dr Bishop. "It might be a natural thing; if a frog survives a chytrid infection then it is resistant when it gets attacked again."

The researchers believe that zoos now will have more options, either to be able to control an outbreak or to rescue infected frogs from the wild, knowing that they can be cured.

The next challenge the research team has set itself is to find a treatment that will work in the wild.

"I would really feel quite satisfied if we could say, 10 years from now, that you have to be careful walking around [Australia's] Kosiuszko National Park or you might tread on a corroboree frog because they're all over the place," said Professor Poulter. "I would take real satisfaction from that."

By Kim Griggs

Science reporter, Wellington

[livingart]

thanks for that report, awesome stuff

[wilson]

wow thats great news

lets hope it works in the long run

[alanmin4304]

Chloramphenicol is a very broad spectrum antibiotic that used to be used widely in the fish trade. When I imported goldfish I tried to get some from my vet. The answer was an emphatic NO. It is the antibiotic treatment of choice in the conrol of cholera and as such its use is extremely restricted so I cant see it being readily spread around the wild to treat frogs anytime soon.

[bdspider]

There's someone selling frogs on trademe who is recommending people let them go into the wild!!!

[wilson]

can you pm me the auction plz this should not! happen at all :evil:

[snookie]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 640476.htm

[HaNs]

They now know..........

[bdspider]

No use Hans, I posted on one of their earlier auctions and in reply they said "Yes I am well aware of the chytrid fungal disease and I wouldnt sell my tadpoles if their parents had the disease. Thankyou for your concern"

But from what I understand, some frogs can carry it without any signs?

[HaNs]

FNZAS MA FIA

Edit:

It want let me post Ma fia without the space, turns it into MAF. My spide senses tell me i have found a banned word

[wilson]

Never release a pet frog into the wild. You could be spreading the chytrid fungus and killing rare native frogs posted by: speedsailer (285 ) 9:26 pm, Tue 30 Oct

Thankyou for your concern, I'm currently investigating whether my pond contains any traces of the fungus, but so far none of the frogs have any of the symptoms and the eco system is healthy. 6:47 am, Wed 31 Oct

[SpidersWeb]

It want let me post Ma fia without the space, turns it into MAF. My spide senses tell me i have found a banned word

haha or a hidden joke perhaps

(I can't verify that though)

[wilson]

lol

[malcolm]

but what if the frogs or tadpoles were completely clean garanteed, that wouldnt be bad for environment. after all you cant kill whats already dead or gone(frog populations).

i was wanting to breed large numbers of sothern bells and release tadpoles into old deserted ponds to start a new population, to do my part.

if the frogs have been in captivity for a number of years and have no outside influences they must be clean?!

[museeumchick]

Its just so hard to be sure, and really not worth the risk

The non native frogs in NZ should have some consideration made towards conserving them as they are threatened and important in their own right, but efforts towards captive breeding for release should be concentrated in their 'natural' habitat and done with serious testing to ensure nothing goes wrong

because in these cases SO much can go wrong and it could be at the expense of our natives

So my opinion (and it is still just that, an opinion. although i like to believe it is an informed one) is nooooo, dont do it.

and if you are going to go ahead with this regardless then please do some serious data searches and reading and be informed about what you are doing.

Think then act

Please

[malcolm]

cheers museumchic, i have and will do my research.

there is no real threat to nz natives from my idea because i live in dunedin, and the natives are thousands of miles away.

[museeumchick]

Is there a threat to anything else? how about snails, or other inverts, or existing bell frog populations?

Just try to consider all aspects first. Informed is the place to be.

Dunedin huh? you should totally exploit your wicked local resources and see if you can get the opinion of the frog man (Phil Bishop) or one of his team at the uni.

[malcolm]

i have already talked to dr phil and he seemed to think it was an ok idea, the large scale breeding part anyway.

he didnt say dont release into the wild although i dont know if i said that was one of my possible inentions, i would of course see him again and let him test individuals pre release.

as for snails etc, i dont see how they would be affected by an animal that doesnt eat aquatic snails and as far as i know carries no snail diseases? i was planning on releasing in a pond which i know used to have a few croakers 4 or 5 years ago. it is partly polluted by blackhead quarry rock sludge discharge and waste water. it does have ducks on occasion but thats all. i visit this pond several times a week at various times of day to go surfing, so know it intimately.

of course these frogs can travel 1 km in a day/night so that has to be consiered.

what sort of constraints are the kakapo, takahe and kiwi put under before release i wonder.

heck this is years away and just all pie in the sky stuff at this stage

thank you though for making me think from a different angle

[Insect Direct]

malcolm - yea its nice seeing frogs in the wild but theyre exotic so i dont think authorities would approve of you releasing them, your not suppose to realease anything captive bred i thought (could be wrong) without permits or permission to do so atleast

youd be better off helping to clean up potential habitats as if the frogs arnt there now you have to ask yourself why?

i think frogs are on the come back as seem to be popping up everywhere over the last year or 2 but previous i couldnt find any, maybe just luck but its pretty cool i found whistlers and bells withing 5km of each other