evilknieval69 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Well as some of you may know, my old 250L tank got a serious case of the bends and needed to be fully stripped down and re-built in order for it not to break. So i went through the long tedious process of cutting it up, getting all the old silicon off, and then siliconing it back together again. It came up alright, but wasn't the prettiest tank you will ever see. I set it up outside and filled er' up. Sweet as, didnt blow out, but it did have some slight stress marks in the seams... something that i didnt like and/or trust. So i decided that i cant trust myself so left it outside to be a coldwater tank, which now holds all my driftwood, some spare java moss and 2 WCMM. Im gunna get more WCMM's soon so they will hopefully breed in there (ive also got some golden WCMM inside which im hoping to breed) Anyway, the next step was, what to do with my big (well smallish at the moment but not for long) Cichlids, including Uarus, Firemouths, and a keyhole, aswell as a bichir, 2 hoplos and some GBAs, BN and corys. They are ATM in a 3 foot holding tank as can be seen here.... I came accross a good sized tank up for sale here so bought it and took a trip up to auckland to pick it up, bought it home and gave it a good clean out and this is it now. Its 1300 x 450 x 600 high.... around 350 litres Next on the list is to buy a piece of 20mm ply wood this weekend for the top of the stand it will be on, and get the tank into place in my bedroom ready for the fill. It will have a 300W stainless steel heater, 1200lph external canister filter, 2 x 36w t8 tubes (maybe 4 in the future) and im thinking about using Reverse under gravel filtration, just to keep the gravel clean from crap, and i guess it provides a bit of extra filtering..... So, theres the story of my new tank and how it came to be... Any ideas as to how i can aquascape it, keeping in mind that i cant realy have plants because of the Uarus, but im going to try some big amazon swords and lots of indian fern and java moss and see what happens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookie Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I tried all those plants with my Uaru,s it didnt work :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Lol. As you can sorta see, the 3 footer they are in ATM is overgrown with floating indian fern and they wont eat it!!! They do however enjoy java moss, but i was thinking that if i could keep the java moss stocks up and let them eat that, then they might leave some big swords alone... But i doubt it :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 The stand i want to use is only 1240mm long, whereas the tank is exactly 1300mm long. Will it matter if i get a piece of plywood the same length as the tank, and have it sticking out 30mm on each end of the stand? Otherwise my only other option is to use my other stand which is 1400mm long and have the stand stick out 50mm on each end from the tank which will look real bad, and is too big for where i want to put it anywho.... ALSO, Just thinking about where im going to put the tank in my room.... I have two options... Move things around and put it on the floor beside an exterior wall (load bearing) which is possible but it would be in a pretty dumb place. Or, i could put it against another wall which is not load bearing... It will weigh 400-450kg once you include the stand, gravel etc with the water volume, so will not be light. Old wooden house, rimu floor boards, wooden piles... Will it take the tank sweet? The stand im gunna use is an angle iron frame, with the centre piece running front to back in the middle aswell, so theres the ends, sides, and the middle piece on the floor. will this spread the weight enough for it to not go through the floor or should i stick it on the load bearing wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 The stand i want to use is only 1240mm long, whereas the tank is exactly 1300mm long. Will it matter if i get a piece of plywood the same length as the tank, and have it sticking out 30mm on each end of the stand? No that will be fine. Just thinking about where im going to put the tank in my room.... I have two options... Move things around and put it on the floor beside an exterior wall (load bearing) which is possible but it would be in a pretty dumb place. Or, i could put it against another wall which is not load bearing... It will weigh 400-450kg once you include the stand, gravel etc with the water volume, so will not be light. Old wooden house, rimu floor boards, wooden piles... Will it take the tank sweet? The stand im gunna use is an angle iron frame, with the centre piece running front to back in the middle aswell, so theres the ends, sides, and the middle piece on the floor. will this spread the weight enough for it to not go through the floor or should i stick it on the load bearing wall? I'm not sure from that description... my 4fter is almost the same size as yours(my tetra tank) and is on a crappy, non load-bearing floor- all sweet for now. (Touch wood) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Yea crap description. I will draw a pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 This is my total out of proportion pic of the stand. What im trying to ask is, will a stand like this be sweet holding 450 odd kg, on an old wooden floor, not by a load bearing wall..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Any ideas as to how i can aquascape it, keeping in mind that i cant realy have plants because of the Uarus, but im going to try some big amazon swords and lots of indian fern and java moss and see what happens.... Uaru's don't just eat plants, they eat driftwood too! I doubt you'll have much luck, the closest I've come to success was with some big old bits of java fern that they usually ignored if they were well fed, but even then half of the new leaves would get nibbled/destroyed. Stick to hard landscaping, rocks, wood etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 If you put it as evenly as you can across the floor joists (across the nails) it should be OK. The floor is only designed to take a tank 200mm high but any tank I have seen is bigger than that. I have a stand of the same design with two 400mm high tanks on it across the jiosts on an old wooden t & g floor and it is OK. I placed the whole thing on a peice of 18mm customwood to try and distribute the load a bit better. Basically the flooring may not handle it but the sub floor probably will if you can get the load down evenly on to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Just had bit of a look where im gunna put the tank, but couldnt lift the carpet to have a look at the position of the joists or anything so i measured the length between the joists in the hallway (which has no carpet) , and then measured through the door into my room, marking each joist on the carpet. Ive found that the stand will be sitting on 2 joists, narrowly missing one at each end also. I need to buy a sheet of ply for the top of the stand so may aswell cut out another piece to put under the stand if you think it will make a difference.... I also had a read through some old posts and found this where spidersweb is saying that 460L is nothing and wont harm the floor at all (mine is smaller than that anywho) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discusguru Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Put a piece of ply under the stand and your problem is solved. Nice size tank . Cheers, ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Put a piece of ply under the stand and your problem is solved. Nice size tank . Is there any proof that it will make a useful difference? I find it hard to believe that even a thick piece of ply or customwood has enough rigidity to do much to help distribute the weights of the tank. Remember we are talking about a weight of around 4-500kg vs a piece of 21mm [at the most] ply or customwood. I think its more of a psychological thing to make us feel better. I had a 5'x2'x2' tank on a wooden floor, running in line with the joists, about a foot out from an exterior wall. The piles were quite tall and I was able to keep a close eye on the joists, and noticed no signs of stress or problems in the 2 years + the tank was set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I find it hard to believe that even a thick piece of ply or customwood has enough rigidity to do much to help distribute the weights of the tank. maybe the thing it will do is give a bigger footprint so that the weight is dispersed all over instead of just in focal points if your worried evil get under the house with some tanalised 4x4 inch on a piece spread on ground and jamb under the joists for more support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 maybe the thing it will do is give a bigger footprint so that the weight is dispersed all over instead of just in focal points If you got a piece of 21mm ply, or 25mm mdf [AFAIK they're the thickest commonly available] and supported it at each end, then put a 500kg weight in the middle of it how much would it bend? Even if the weight was only a couple of cm's either side of the supports, I think it would flex quite a bit. Even thick ply can warp when it gets wet and drys again, so I don't think that will work, and I don't think MDF has much more rigidity (I've seen how much a 3.6M piece of 18mm MDF will flex just under its own weight when supported only at the ends.). I think if you really want to distribute the weight over more joists you should make the stand longer so it sits over four joists rather than two. Could you move it across either way so it is sitting on 3 joists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimebag Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 if you use a good treated ply its not going to warp when wet. as mark said a piece of ply under the stand will give a much larger footprint, instead of all the weight on 3 points.should be fine rogan, but if you want to pull carpet back to check floor boards, i can come and stretch it back in for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Could you move it across either way so it is sitting on 3 joists? Nah the wall its gunna be on is only 1300 long, exactly the same length as the tank, so i cant move it either way. I might get under the house this weekend and see exactly where the closest piles are too it, and see it i need to put any more in which i could do it need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 but if you want to pull carpet back to check floor boards, i can come and stretch it back in for you. so dimebag is a carpet stretcher yes a long piece of even 30 mm thick ply will bend but with with only 30mm sticking out each end you will be right. dont use mdf as stated it turns to poo when it gets wet, remember its basically just extra thick cardboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 if you use a good treated ply its not going to warp when wet. I wouldn't count on it, treating it will do nothing to prevent it expanding and contracting as it gets wet. I used to work at carters at even the 21mm H3 ply [the thickest grade we stocked] was often warped out of the pack. The best thing to do would be to seal it and paint it to stop moisture getting in. yes a long piece of even 30 mm thick ply will bend but with with only 30mm sticking out each end you will be right. It will still flex, just a whole lot less. I'm still sceptical about just how much of the weight it will transfer to the outside two joists, and how that will change over time, but I guess without setting up a big experiment with scales under each joist to measure the load we'll never really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Im just getting more and more confused! will it be sweet if i put it there or not? Im getting an 8 x 4 sheet of ply tomorrow so may aswell use some of it to put under the stand, even if it hardly helps, its peace (piece?) of mind, and will cut another piece for under the tank, that will stick out 30mm on each end. Hopefully can get the tank sorted and filled on the weekend! I think that it will be fine where it is, because if you think about it, even if it is only on two joists, its going to be an absolute max of 250kgs per joist at any time (500kg max for whole setup i think) ,3 solid guys standing on a single joist within a 500mm space( at least 250 kg between them), the joist is not going to move. I have done a bit of building using joists, beams and piles (i built our 4 x 4m deck) and when you think about it they are pretty strong, and our house ones are rimu i think so thats even better.... I will still get under the house tomorrow if possible (dunno if theres an entrance anymore :lol: ) and see where the nearest piles are etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimebag Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 it will be sweet man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I think it'll be alright anyway. I had a 5'x2'x2' running in line with the joists. It was only over two 6x2 jousts, and about 6" from an exterior wall. How thick is the ply you're getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I will probably get 20mm Duncan, how many litres is your tank? your house is wooden floors isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimebag Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 mine is around 300l, and yes it is a wooden floor. to be honest i never checked about the joists or anything, just put it where i wanted it and filled it up no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 ohk sweet as, so yours is similiar to mine, just a tad lighter I think it will be sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted September 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Had a look underneath the house today.... Piles are directly below the tank location! Yeeha! Now i have absolute peace of mind! Been working on the stand aswell.... A sheet of ply was gunna be $130 odd (not what i expected!) so i opted for a cheaper way out.... I had a piece of 21mm ply here anyway, but its only 1240mm long (tank is 1300) so i drilled 3 holes in each end of the stand, and bolted two 35mm wide pieces of timber onto the side of it (one each end) flush with the piece of ply. I also screwed a front piece on to make it look nicer (front wont hold tank, just for decoration) Bogged the holes, cracks etc up, sanded it back, painted with some house paint, sanded back a little bit from that and then finished it with flat black spraypaint. It looks SWEEEEET. I also sprayed the rest of the metal on the stand so it looks nicer than what it did.... Ill get some pics shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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