ethical implications of keeping marine tanks

[reef]

This topic was started in another thread so best to continue here. it is a interesting subject.

I have view which i will post when i get time.

Good article however one also needs to consider the ethical implications of keeping marine tanks considering the negative effect the aquarium trade has on wild caught species and their natural habitat.

Do you eat fish noelj? Surely you would realize the number of fish caught for consumption (Including reef fish yes) is far is excess of those caught for the Aquarium trade. Many fish you see in Shops (Most clown fish, Banggai cardinals and Seahorses) are tank bred. As for corals, most corals in New Zealand's Reefkeepers tanks are not of Wild origin (well they were originally of course) but are from Aquaculture and frag trading amongst hobbyists. Bottom trawling and dynamiting have far more disastrous implications on fragile reef ecosystems than selective coral removal for the aquarium trade. Other factors which are having an effect on reef which are perhaps human related include the rising global sea temperature. Reefkeeping is often the scapegoat in the media due to the direct impact humans are having on the reef ecosystems. What I am saying however is that Indirect Human influences on coral reefs have much larger consequences than direct ones. Of course I am not saying that you can just get corals and fish and have no obligation to care for them and provide for their needs, of course you have to, but the damage Reefkeeping has on reef ecosystems is small (and reducing) in comparison to other human activities. (Even snorkeling has negative impacts on reefs)

[davidb]

good idea reef

[noelj]

yes i agree, good idea

[Caryl]

Ethics go both ways. Although the hobby can certainly have a negative impact it can also be good. There are a number of freshwater fishes that are no longer found in the wild due to the destruction of their habitat and they would no longer exist if it wasn't for hobbyists.

[wasp]

Noelj raises a valid point though and one I hope all reefers take seriously.

With corals it is not such an issue now as they are easily propogated, in fact the majority of the corals pictured in that article have been aquacultured, in some cases for many generations.

Likewise the 2 clown fish pictured were bred in a tank in NZ, and even the anemone they are in has been propogated in a NZ aquarium for many generations, or in the case of an anemone, clones.

Even the coral importers are now moving to ones that have been aquacultured in the ocean, so pressure on reefs from the aquarium trade need not be an issue provided we are ethical in our purchasing choices.

Fish, not so easy to aquaculture in fact there are some species that will probably never be aquacultured. To me, the big thing is preservation of habitat, ie, not destroying the reef itself. If this can be done, ethical sustainable fish harvest can be achieved, and I know our NZ importers are attempting to support areas where this is happening.

But bottom line, conservation is something we should all have in the back of our mind, and is achieveable, with the right mindset from all parties.

[reef]

The thread raises some very interesting questions.

It is something i think about every time i bring stock in as i see how many losses you have and then further losses down the track.

I take great care in looking after marine fish for 3 weeks and then it disappoints me that many hobbyists think they are some sort of endless commodity where they think they can get some live rock and then set up a tank the next day. Sure it can work but it takes time for a tank to mature.

Cost seems to be a big factor and every post you seem to read someone posts something about price.

In my opinion if you can’t afford it then the hobby is not for you as doing it cheap has consequences as you can’t get decent water quality using cheap equipment and it is even harder if you take short cuts.

we only have less than 400 Hobbyist and if you count all the fish that come in we should all have about 100 fish each, however not the case as 70% die within a few months of buying them.

90% of coral that come in are wild.

99.9% of fish are wild caught.

Hobbyists don’t want to spend the money as aqua cultured corals cost more and are smaller in size.

In short term the Hobby will cost even more as stock is getting hard to get.

Most tank raised fish imported cost too much and even harder to get as there is a short supply and cost effects us more as we have high air freight cost and Compliance cost.

The big problem is places like the USA which get hundreds of imports a year and Hobbyist just kill them faster as they are cheap due to the number imported and no quarantine period.

Only way to stop some of the deaths to livestock is to raise the prices as this will stop Hobbyist doing it on the cheap and since they have more money invested they might even buy decent books and do some research before getting into marines.

[noelj]

I don’t have a problem with others keeping fish, whether wild caught or not. I do however have a problem with people who don’t consider where their animals come from (or the impact of removing them from their natural habitat). Yes I think more people in the aquarium hobby should be aware of such issues, it leads to a much deeper and more enjoyable hobby experience.

[markoshark]

Whether or not we spend $9999999 on a certain piece of equipment that makes the water quality 20% better than spending $200 on another that does the same thing, in the end, will you really get that enjoyment out of spending that money?

For me, what it boils down to is this:

Regardless of how much one spends, or the equipment they use, provided that they DO THE BEST THAT THEY CAN for the fish/corals that they have bought, then that is the most that can be expected. Stupid mistakes, like running an RODI backup unit directly from the tap, and into the tank, and forgetting to turn it off, not bothering do do water changes etc, not taking care of corals and killing them off, because you "forget". If you are not prepared to do the time in caring, don't bother!

Reef: Trying to cut off all the people who can "barely" afford to keep a marine tank by increasing the prices out of this world is going to make the hobby virtually inaccessable to all but the richest people is NOT going to make a difference. If it was worldwide, then, perhaps yes, and perhaps then the reefs would remain intact. And then people who are employed in the business would become penniless, and have a global flow-on effect on the worldwide economy.

Very often, we read how LFS don't give the customer the full information when buying a tank, and their fish / coral die, and the customer goes back, to get equipment X, and part Y, and this happens time, and time again, this benefits two people - The importer, and the shop.

i'm aware that the fish I enjoy are wild-caught, however, I am also aware that many highly cruel and inhumane ways of capturing fish are used, which means that the fish arrive, and die soon after - Cayanide fishing, Dynamite fishing etc.

[wilson]

i try to buy captive breed fish when ever i can

i dont mind spending a bit more because most captive breed fish are more tolerent of water and they havnt havnt had to endure the stress of being caught

(sorry about the spelling im in a hurry) :oops:

[davidb]

more tolerent of water

I think all fish are pretty tolerant of Water Wilson :lol:

[cookie extreme]

like running an RODI backup unit directly from the tap, and into the tank, and forgetting to turn it off, not bothering do do water changes etc, not taking care of corals and killing them off, because you "forget". If you are not prepared to do the time in caring, don't bother!

well said! even some "more" experienced reefers done that! thats one of the reasons i am against automatic topup systems. it makes you lazy and mistakes will happen. but hey if you are able to get new stock in to replace the old that should/must be ok? isn't it?? it all comes down to time and care. if you only have ten minutes a day don't bother with a reef tank, regardless what people say it will take a lot longer then that to care for it!

[wilson]

I think all fish are pretty tolerant of Water Wilson :lol:

:oops: i think you know what i mean

more tolerant of different water condition's

in other words they can survive small screw ups

and note i think its bad to keep a fish in anything but the best water suited

to them. :-?

[davidb]

Update from Latest MAC:

http://www.marinefiends.com/wordpress/

[rollergirl]

Whether or not we spend $9999999 on a certain piece of equipment that makes the water quality 20% better than spending $200 on another that does the same thing, in the end, will you really get that enjoyment out of spending that money?

Reef: Trying to cut off all the people who can "barely" afford to keep a marine tank by increasing the prices out of this world is going to make the hobby virtually inaccessable to all but the richest people is NOT going to make a difference.

Totally agree here-I know of one (very rich) guy who spends the MAXIMUM on equipment, tank, etc etc and has all the latest gidgets and gadgets...But at the end of the day, doesn't put the time and effort into his tank and wonders why his fish/corals die? (Before he goes and buys more to replace them!) At the end of the day the money spent is not the issue-of course you need good equipment, but if you just don't CARE enough to learn about how to look after a reef tank then things aren't going to thrive in it, no matter how much you spend.

My .002 cents anyway...

[tHEcONCH]

I'm a bit new to the marine side of things, but frankly I haven't seen anything that suggests marine aquarists, as a group, are any different from freshwater aquarists or cat or dog owners, for that matter - there are the good and bad, and the plain stooopid.

I've got a pretty modest set-up containing some pretty expensive corals and I do do my best to keep them happy (which can be measured in dollars - I estimate it costs me about $50-$80/week), but I've seen some pretty impressive equipment owned by complete bone-heads housing a few sad survivors.

I'd agree with reef in that money plays a role - unless you are willing and able to pay the startup, stocking, and RUNNING COSTS of your set-up, both in terms of cash and time, you won't be successful and should leave rarer and harder corals alone, but as price-points are relative to income, its always going to be a pretty blunt and ineffective tool for keeping 'dodgy' keepers away from certain corals. I'm lucky (stoopid?) enough to be able to buy expensive corals, but I wouldn't say that it makes be a better keeper.

Ultimately I think it turns on your own concience, not money. I do care about my corals, which is why I'm happy to spend money on what they need to survive and hopefully thrive, but how do you convince some lunk with dollars to spend that he shouldn't buy that coral because he doesn't care enough?

[shaneo]

I feel guilty now..... think I might give the tank and gear a clean/overhaul

edit:spelling :roll:

[reef]

came across this article

Collecting Reality

J. Charles Delbeek

Q: Eighteen months ago, I moved to Hawaii's Kona coast. Until then I, like thousands of saltwater hobbyists, was ignorant of where our saltwater fish came from, and how. But no longer. Feeding the demand of the tropical fish industry is big business here. Literally thousands of fish are taken from our reefs weekly by somewhere around 150 collectors. Needless to say, this collection is devastating the reefs. Recently, two collectors were caught using bleach on the reef to catch fish — illegal, and deadly to the corals. It's my understanding that the situation is far worse in the Philippines.

The vast majority of residents want this stopped, but politics being what they are, it is still being allowed. The opposition is measurable, however, and I think in time will succeed in stopping, or heavily regulating the industry.

This brings up the question: Is destruction of reef ecosystems worth feeding a hobby? As a happy freshwater hobbyist, my position is "no." The next time someone wants to buy that yellow tang at the pet store, they should think carefully about the effect the loss of that animal from the reef represents and what the future of that reef is.

A: The collection of marine tropical fishes is big business in whatever country it occurs. In just about every instance this collection is poorly regulated, if at all. However, given the prolific nature of many of the fish collected for the marine trade, it is rare to find a species whose numbers have become threatened.

What is of much greater concern is habitat degradation and/or destruction. Logging, road building, dredging, ship groundings, watershed destruction and nutrient run-off from agriculture and golf courses are the main factors that lead to this. Destructive fishing practices, such as cyanide, bleach and dynamite, are all of great concern not only for the damage they cause to non-target fish species, but also the habitat destruction they cause. These techniques are more commonly used in the food fish industry than in the collection of tropical fish.

This brings me to your letter. To the best of my knowledge, there is no scientific evidence that shows collection has had a significant impact on fish populations on the Kona coast. I would be interested in hearing what scientific evidence you have that shows that their collection is "devastating" the reefs. Surveys done along that coastline have shown very little change in tropical fish populations over the last few decades. There have been declines in some areas, but it is not just aquarium fish, but all fish populations, that are declining. The reason: overfishing.

The fact that there is very little scientific evidence to support claims that aquarium fish are decreasing at significant rates does not mean there's no problem. This is why ichthyologists in Hawaii have been urging the state to set aside at least 30 percent of all coastlines as protected areas — to allow populations in these areas to recover and repopulate adjacent areas. This is mainly for the larger food fish species, but aquarium fish would benefit as well.

The Department of Land and Natural Resources in Hawaii has the second lowest budget of any similar state department in the U.S. It is poorly staffed, and is somewhat handcuffed in policy-making because Hawaii is the only state in the U.S. whose legislature sets state natural resource policy. However, you can make all the laws you want, but unless they can be enforced they are all but useless. Fortunately, changes are afoot, and more Department of Land and Natural Resources officers will be added in the coming year.

You appear to imply that aquarium fish collectors were using bleach to collect aquarium fish on Kona. This is not true. First of all, bleach kills fish, so this would be useless as a technique for fish collecting. Secondly, the individuals involved in the incident you mention were on the island of Oahu, not on the Kona coast — they were fishermen collecting squirrelfish for food, not tropical fish collectors. The use of chemicals in fishing is illegal in Hawaii, and these two individuals were caught and charged.

There are many legitimate and environmentally conscientious fish collectors in Hawaii, and they have formed their own association. Unfortunately, there are some who are less responsible, and it is this small fraction who may be the cause for much of the bad press associated with fish collecting. Hawaii needs stricter licensing procedures, more protected areas and perhaps quotas on certain species.

There has been an ongoing debate, at times very heated, between the dive industry and the tropical fish collectors in Hawaii. Unfortunately, this issue has been plagued with misinformation, rhetoric and a dearth of scientific evidence. In reality, many of the best dive areas are the worst for collecting because of the topography, and the fish collectors' association is more than willing to work with the dive industry to work out a compromise. However, when emotions run high, reason and "facts" tend to get pushed to the side. We will see how the situation develops.

I am not sure where you got the figure of "thousands" of saltwater hobbyists not knowing where their fish come from. Cyanide fishing for aquarium fish in the Philippines has been known for over 20 years and has been reported in hobbyist magazines for just as long. Organizations such as Ocean Voice International and the International Marinelife Alliance, the Haribon Foundation, Aquarium Systems, the Canadian International Development Agency and others are working hard to tackle the thorny issue of cyanide use and its spread throughout the South Pacific. Hobbyists owe it to themselves and the industry to be better informed about what is going on.

Although your sentiments concerning collecting and removing fish from reefs are commendable, the fact is that healthy reefs can easily withstand their collection, provided ecologically sound techniques for collection and population management are instituted. You hold up the freshwater hobby as a better model. However, if you have cardinal tetras in your aquarium you may be interested to learn that many of these are still wild caught. Actually, many freshwater fish still are wild caught. There are also now many marine fish that are captive breed, and any readers who feel so inclined, should seek these out and only purchase captive-raised marines.

[davidb]

Cheers Alois. Delbeek is a good ecologist (and a reefkeeper!)- I have read quite a bit of his stuff when doing marine ecology papers at uni... from memory he works at Waikiki Aquarium in Hawaii

[reef]

J Delbeek gruduated from the University of Toronto in 1981 with honors in biology.

he been caring for marine organisms for over 30 years and currently maintains ten exhibits at the waikiki aquarium.

I have all his book which are great

[tHEcONCH]

So the next shipment is due here in a few days, huh? Should I buy any of it?

[wilson]

So the next shipment is due here in a few days, huh? Should I buy any of it?

you will

ive been told you rearanged your tank so you can fit more corals in :roll:

[wasp]

This is why ichthyologists in Hawaii have been urging the state to set aside at least 30 percent of all coastlines as protected areas — to allow populations in these areas to recover and repopulate adjacent areas.

That's something i'd like to see a lot more of in NZ. Look at Goat Island! What an amazing place!

Also glad to see the government has just brought in more realistic fish quotas, of course the fishermen are moaning, this is because the government has followed their usual practise of doing nothing for years then suddenly coming in with a sledge hammer.

[davidb]

more marine reserves are on the way Wasp, they are just being sorted out at the moment

[markoshark]

goat island is cool, 7 pound snapper in knee-deep water