danilada Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Im abit confused??? Is there much difference between and under gravel filter and an internal filter? If you have a under gravel filter do you need a internal? What if your under gravel does not have carbon, is it useless. Hope this makes sense, I have tried googling it, but its left me more confused??? Thanks Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsarmina Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 in my experience: electronic filters, internal or external, are a whole heap better than UG filters. an electronic one will collect the 'gunk' out or the tank into itself, which you then clean out. UG collects the gunk under the plastic platform. you then have to try and get it all out without disturbing the tank. when i was using an UG filter, i had major problems with nitrate levels being very high no matter how many water changes i did. it cleared up as soon as i took it out. you can use both together. as for carbon, i find its a waste of time. yes, it does absorb chemicals in the tank, but if not changed reasonably frequently, it can release these back into the tank. for an UG filter i used to use zeolite. BUT, as i said, this is just my opinions and experience. everyone differs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 The filters all work in the same way.. you have some media, bacteria grow on the media and you arrange for water to flow through it. With an undergravel filter the media is the tank gravel. It doesn't have a huge surface area because it's relatively large rocks, but it's cheap and simple. It's OK for smaller sized tanks and lower stocking rates. You can also use a sponge filter, thats a chunk of sponge with an air stone inside to move water through the sponge and do some filtering. An internal power filter is a step up, it has sponges and or ceramic beads for the bacteria to grow on and a pump to move more water. After that you can go to an external canister filter, it can be much bigger, more media, bigger pump, so it does an even better job. A sump filter seems to be the ultimate, a whole small tank set up below the main tank with filter media and other fancy gadgets, used for marine or big tropical tanks and lots of fish. Generally you dont need carbon filters in a normal tank, unless there is some contamination you are trying to remove. Like medication after treating a disease etc. So you can use just an undergravel filter, but it wont keep the water quality as good as you can with a better filter. It's OK for small tanks and a few fish, but a better filter lets you keep more and healthier fish. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.qian Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I think you are best to go with an internal power filter for now. Undergravel filters create a lot of hassle with cleaning. When i first started with fish keeping I had an undergravel filter and replaced it within a week and changed to an Eheim power filter, was much more convinnient and does a very good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Have a read on this age.. there are several articles that might help http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/technical/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 IME the better the filter, the easier the tank is to look after and the healthier the fish. Doesn't mean you can just do nothing, water changes, gravel vacuuming still need to be done but not so time consuming. Ianab explained it very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 With an undergravel filter the media is the tank gravel. It doesn't have a huge surface area because it's relatively large rocks, but it's cheap and simple What an absolute load of bollocks. The undergravel filter is recommended to have 76mm of gravel over the top of it. The big rocks spoken of are decoration or security areas mainly. The water is gently drawn through the filter bed and the clean water comes up the pipe with the air, and so it goes on. To clean them, which isn't very often, turn of the air and apply a syphon to the airlift. Some ppl wince at the "gunk" that forms underneath the plate, but if left undisturbed, causes no problems with the gentle airflow over it. The gravel above the filter is gravel vac'd when ever the rest of the tank is done, and the only problem I have found are with big cichlids, that can dislodge, or break the upright stems. Or cichlids that like playing with gravel and spit it down the pipe. Nothing wrong with U/G filters and one helluva a lot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Alan.. I never said UG filters dont work, they do, I have them in 2 of my tanks. As far as cost effectiveness goes they probably win hands down. But sorry I dont think they do as good a job as a good power filter and definately not a big external canister. My comment about the surface area is because gravel is just small rocks, OK a nice thick layer in a tank adds up to a usefull area for the bacteria to live. But compared to sponge, wool or ceramic beads it has a lot less surface area per volume of media. Another plus for the UG is that there is no big current generated, makes it suitable for fry rearing tanks. I allways find guppy fry inside my ehiem internal. :-? No reason you cant run both... more filtering is better and that way you have a backup to your power filter. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danilada Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Thanks guys, I have a fluval in my big com tank, but have just started cycling my new 60l one for breeding purposes only (guppys and corys) it came with a UG Filter and I don't know much about them, so was wondering if it would be ok with the fish thats in it or should I get an internal as well. I might just cycle it, see how it levels out, add some fish gradualy see how much change etc happens and if its not working out then I might opt to a internal. Are guppys or corys hardy enough for cycling????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.qian Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 you could try cycling without fish, its faster anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 The Alans agree about UG filters. I had a fishhouse with over 50 tanks all with UG filters for a number of years and they worked very well even with very high stocking rates. I gave them up after a disease outbreak because it was such a pain sterilizing the systems. Bare tanks are easier but don't look as good. I believe they should be set up the same way as a trickling slow sand filter used in water supply treatment. That is courser gravel at the bottom and gradually finer all the way up. Forget about the big clean/clean gravel vac and just take the crud off the top. Like all biological filters they only work best when 3/4 full of crud. Some plants don't like them I found, so use something that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Are guppys or corys hardy enough for cycling????? I have cycled tanks with guppys AND an undergravel filter. No problems, just take it slow and just add a few at first. In fact with guppys you can probably just put a pair in and wait. The tank should stock itself over time. If you take a handfull of gravel from the established tank it will have some bacteria on it to 'seed' your new tank/filter. UG filter will be fine for a guppy breeding tank, there are no strong currents or filter intakes to suck up the fry. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 I always cycle with fish as I have yet to find the formula for how many dead prawns is equivalent to a pair of live guppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 :lol: I am with Alan on that one. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.