BioSpira

[heyandrea_]

BioSpira, has anyone heard of it? And where do I get it from? I've been recommended it to help cycle my tank. I tried cycling my tank with fish, but they died, so I'm going to try and do it without fish. I've been using Cycle, but haven't seen any results!

What product do I use to add ammonia to my tank?

[Caryl]

Use pure ammonia or prawns. Have a look here...

http://www.tropicaltankforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8326

[heyandrea_]

If I was to do this, should I empty my tank of it's existing water, clean it and start all over again. The water at the moment is from my existing fish which died

[Caryl]

Test the ammonia etc levels now and go from there I think. I have never tried a fishless cycle but they are all the rage in the UK and cycling with fish is very much frowned upon.

[Bluetom]

A few question

Are you running a filter on the tank? If so what sort?

What size is the tank?

Do you have gravel in the tank?

Cycle won't do anything unless there are fish in there. It only works on ammonia in the tank, if there isn't any the bacteria you are adding will not multiply.

My suggestion is as follows;

Give the filter media a little clean just incase it's got some nasty build up in it.

Depending on the size or your tank, add a prawn or 2, teset your water for an ammonia spike. should get up to 5ppm of so (i think :-? ) let if go back to zero. then add a few small fish.

Wait a few more weeks and add some more.

[sharn]

We cant get Bio-Spira here, its a states thing i beleive and needs to be refridgerated 100% of the time otherwise it goes off.

There are a few methods you can use to cycle a tank, fishless (using fish food, prawns, ammonia etc) or with fish and building up the stocking very slowly.

One of the local club members may be able to chuck a handful of media from one of their established filters your way to get you started, what part of tauranga are you in?

[heyandrea_]

Yes it has a filter, it's an undergravel one, 5 gal tank, and it has gravel.

I live in Welcome Bay.

I was led to believe that cycle helped establish bacteria, I did orignally have fish in my tank, but didnt see that the cycle product was working.

[Caryl]

Cycle may give the cycle a small boost but it is just as easy to save your money and not use it. It still has to have fish in the tank to do anything.

[Ianab]

You may find that inspite of the fish you lost that your tank is actually now cycled and safe for fish... But you really need a water test to confirm that.

With a small tank, you will need to be very carefull cycling with fish. Larger tanks are actually easier to set up and look after as things happen much slower and it takes longer for chemicals to build up in the larger volume of water. It might take weeks for a couple of small fish to pollute a 200l+ tank, by that time the filters have caught up and you can add more fish. Small tank it will get toxic in days if the filters aren't working properly.

Having said that, you should be able to set up your small tank OK, just take it real slow with the fish. I have a small tank that I use from time to time as a hospital or fry rearing tank. It just runs an undergravel filter too, but when I set it up it only gets 2 guppies for those first couple of weeks. It would probably hold 20 guppies once it's cycled, but starting with that number would be a disaster.

The tank cycling solutions will help, but it's really just a seed for whatever filter system you have. Getting an established filter or piece of media from another tank is probably the best way to go. But somewhere along the line you need to get biological stuff (fish poo, rotton food or plain ammonia) into the system to grow the bacteria needed in the filter. Doing some extra partial water changes and very light feeding during the initial cycle might help too, just by keeping the ammonia levels under control untill the filter catches up.

Cheers

Ian

[heyandrea_]

There is traces of ammonia in my tank. I did a water test 2 days ago, just after a water change and just before my 2nd fish died, and there was no nitrite and nitrate readings, and ammonia was 0.50ppm (mg/L).

However I did a test about 2 weeks ago which showed nitrite at zero, nitrate at 5ppm(mg/L) and ammonia was 2.0ppm(mg/L). I'm not sure why the nitrate level dropped, isn't is suppose to rise?

So from these latest readings, I don't think my tank has cycled, and i don't really want to add anymore fish yet.

I wish I had found out that bigger tanks were easier to look after, but was told to start small by the staff at the pet shop. Never listen to them, they don't know what they're talking about!

[Ianab]

So from these latest readings, I don't think my tank has cycled, and i don't really want to add anymore fish yet.

I agree, dont put any fish in untill the ammonia level reads close to 0

The good news is, your tank now has some ammonia in it, no need to add any more artifically. Leave it with the filter running for a week, test it again and see what happens. Just need to wait for them bacteria in the filter to catch up.

Cheers

Ian

[Alan]

What did your fish die from???????????

[sharn]

It sounds like your tank was cycling or it had a spike, your ammonia has dropped down and you may see your nitrite have a small spike soon. The reason your nitrates have dropped is because you did a w/c, they usually rise up as your nitrite drops back down and the cycle nears completion.

I work at the one on hewletts road and i know what im talking about normally :lol: Unfortunatly a few stores would rather sell you a small tank than try and talk you into a larger tank just to get your cash (often people tell you to shutup and stop trying to take their money when you advise them that a larger tank is easier to keep ). If you do want to upgrade someone local may be able to help you out tank wise

[heyandrea_]

What did your fish die from???????????

Ammonia poisoning. My first fish didn't show any signs, but a noticed a few days later that the second fish had redish purple gills. A day or so before my second fish died, I also noticed black markings on the edges of its fins and tail, and on its body. It looked pretty sick, and had lost alot of its gold colouring.

I will do another water test in a few days.

I've been dealing with animates and have found that even though they are trying to be helpful some of them have been giving me conflicting information. Eg. when I first got my tank, someone told me to give the tank 24 hours and then add fish, and when I went back after my first fish had died someone else told me that I should have left it for a week! Really confusing!

[sharn]

I know its no excuse but its often not their fault, many employees are employed to work and sell prodcut, not to provide knowledge. Often the info they give you has been learnt from someone else that doesnt really know what the deal is with fish and it just goes downhill from there

Leaving a tank for a day, or a week is going to make diddly squat worth of difference if there is nothing to start a cycle as you probably know :lol: At least with this crew here you'll be set

[HummingBird]

It really doesn't matter how long you leave the tank for, it's when it starts to have fish in it that matters. If you add bacterial supplements(cycle, stress zyme, TLC, etc) you should be able to keep your ammonia and nitrites at zero from the get go (I've done this myself).

[sharn]

Hummingbird- how are you able to do that if the tank needs them to complete a cycle? Do you just keep them and below detectable levels? If so wouldnt that take yonks to cycle?

[Ianab]

I think what he means is that by seeding the tank with bacteria or an established filter and introducing fish slowly you can cycle a tank without ammonia / nitrite getting above trace (harmless) levels.

Once the cycle starts the stock of fish can be slowly increased

It's a bit of a balancing act, but if you are carefull it will work fine.

Cheers

Ian

[alanmin4304]

I have never (in over 30 years) had a problem with cycling a new tank with fish or used a cycling product. I set up the tank and plant it out with as much plant as I can get and wait a couple of weeks for the plant to get established then add a few fish, feed lightly and add fish slowly. It helps if you can add a seeded filter but not required. It is called cycling because it is about completing the nitrogen cycle ( urea-ammonia-nitrite-nitrate) Many people forget that it is actually a cycle and that it works further and as the plants that have used the nitrate die and rot the cycle is continued back to ammonia by other microbes. If you think of the system as an equation you can move what happens. If the plants are established and using nitrate the equation will move that way to establish more nitrate and if you remove the dead or dieing leaves you will remove a further cause of ammonia production. Like most things in an aquarium it is a living system and you are trying to establish a stable balance. If you are consistant with feeding and water changes it will reach a stable balance and be "cycled". In my view there is nothing cruel about cycling with fish if you do it properly and don't cause the fish stress.

That is what works for me and I guess you have to do what works for you.

[Caryl]

I agree with you totally Alan. I too have always done it that way and never lost a fish to the process.

[heyandrea_]

Isn't it harder to keep the water quality good if you use live plants? Ive always been told to avoid plants and use artificial ones.

[dimebag]

i would disagree with that plants use up nitrates. if you want a couple of plants to start u off, i can spare a couple of crypts and a bit of stargrass

[Caryl]

Much easier to maintain a tank with real plants in it!

[heyandrea_]

That would be helpful dimebag! Im still trying to get my head around the benefits of plants? How do they effect the water in the tank etc, do you put them in for awhile before you add fish? Any information would be grateful!