Pies Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Keep your eyes pealed There are deals to be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Where do you guys get your base rock and sand? Needa get me some! I've also changed my plans a bit, planning on just using two big powerheads instead of a sump. Should simplify things a bit because I won't have to drill overflows in the tank or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 There is no doubt that no having a sump simplifies things a lot. A sump is not run to create waterflow because of the return. It often has several advantages; more water volume, hide all heaters & filter bags, easy play to do water changes, keeps the display tank water volume at a consistant level. Not having a sump reduces your options for a skimmer too. You will have to look at bakpac type skimmer or hang on type I am guesing. Rock and sand. Although you are getting ahead of yourself, it doesn't hurt to get the rock cycling. Get Graham to order you the rock. He got some for a guy called 'Taylor' this week, I think it comes from brooklands, and there is no way to get it cheaper as he won't change your freight. Bank on about $11-12 a kg. I suggest getting as much as you can afford, certainly at least 20 kg (hard to know, as differnt pieces have diffrerent weights). Tell Gramame you only want big bits, otherwise you will get rubble. Also I would be interested in 1 or 2 long big bits (to make some 'mountaions'). I have some rubble I can give you if you need some. Sand from the same plave. But this is where you need to be careful. To deep and you'll have problems. You really only want a dusting (1cm max). I have some here that I have syphoned out of my tank, about half a bucket, $20.00 and its yours (will also give you some live sand if you want it). Otherwise its about $55.00 a sack for $15kg. The rock will take quite a while to cycle, at least 3 months, maybee longer in a new aquairum. I'd offer to cycle some for you, but I don't have much room in my sump as am doing this for someone else right now. But we could try and squeeze some in. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Yeah, I realize I'll need to get a hob skimmer. Part of the reason i'm skipping the sump is because there really wouldn't be enough room for an in sump skimmer anyway, so it would be a lot of extra work just to get the heater hidden. Actually, the skimmer is the major part holding me up. Though, I can run the tank for a while without one so I should stop worrying. Who is graham? I figure with the rock if nothing else it can just sit in the closet for a while without a worry, but once I get it I will get a big bin and take a trip to the ocean. Would sometime this weekend be good to stop by? Looking at your tank would probably give me heaps of motivation to get mine running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
count_sexy_tart Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 i'd say he is talking about graham at lower hutt,ira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 I stopped by Paws and Claws and have them getting me prices on Via Aqua 1300 powerheads(1150lph) and a via aqua wavemaker attachment. Hmmm...I'm a bit unsure of going through the lower hutt pet center. They really don't inspire any confidence in me. Also, just got an email back from Redwood Aquatics in Christchurch(Great store, I visit it every time I'm in chch), they got back to me in less than 2 hours, awesome! Anyway, looks like a 40kilo box is $9 per kilo or $12 per kilo under that. I was thinking about 25 kilos and getting 40 kilos would only be $60 more. That's not including shipping though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Yeah Graham at Hut Pet Store. This weekend, maybee for Sat late afternoon or Sunday late afternoon. I am working both days this weekend. Get the rock cycling ASAP. Put it in a bin, or anything really. Put an airstone in it and start it off. Doesn't need or want light, temrature not even that important this time of year, but stick in a heater if you want. The sump requires lots of patence to sort out, drilled glass etc, so its a real hastle. Well worth it I might add, but can understand getting frustrated with it. It tool me over 2 months to get my sump planned, and even then I only did an average job of it all. Ahhh if only I could go back in time... Give me a call before you pop over, am in Ngaio. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 I agree with your lack of confidence in the Hutt Pet Centre. But when it comes to buying dry goods they are pretty good, and have good selection. Graham has always been good to me, and stood by everything he has sold me, which is more than I could say for shops like Animates. Which I would NEVER purchase from again. At least, by comparison, the Hutt pet centre is cheaper. Redwood Aquatics. That sounds like a good price, is that dead white rock? Sounds good. I delt with Redwoods a few times when I got started. They sell deiased fish, in unhealthy conditions, and are unable or unwilling to make reasonable identifications of there stock. Redwood are no doubt a great place to have as a local pet store, but I found that from a mailorder arangement for them to be unfriendly, unreasonable and uninterested. I doubt they will see any of my money again. This is just my opnion, and I am sure others have different opnions, and like lots of places, they are fine unless something goes wrong. I won't deal with places like this anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Looks like I've decided on what I'm going to do to start off with. I'll get the two powerheads and wavemaker and maybe only 10 kilos of base rock, throw that all in the tank, go and collect rocks, water, etc from the ocean and throw that in the tank. Kinda just cycle everything in the tank and build up from there. I won't go BUY any fish until I've got at least a skimmer so anything I do accidentally kill will be free. Pies, you've mentioned you use natural seawater, right and have collected from the ocean, where did you get it? What do you carry the water in? I guess I'll hassle you about it when I visit. I've seen big plastic bins for not too expensive, but I'm not sure I'd trust those in the car full of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 It's not the car you have to worry about, it's the driver. I use to cart saltwater for my setup, and on the first trip very quickly learnt to take hairpin bends a LOT slower than normal, a lot slower. The drum wasn't tied, fell over and almost went thru the side of my car. It was only a smal car too, a Fiat Uno. But I could still carry two of those drums, but from then on, tied them in/on securely. I haven't got a salty up at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 The driving carefully wouldn't be too bad, except for the last 3 miles of the drive home consists of something in the range of 20 hairpin bends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 ira if you are going to want a succesful tank you will need more than 10kg of rock. you can go and add more rock latter unless it is cycled rock. i would get enough rock to finish the tank so that the tank will be fully cycled. skimmer is very important so go and buy yourselve a xmas present. i would budget min $4000 for a tank, if this is not possable maybe goldfish would suit the budget. i have seen so many fail due to cutting cost and most of the advice you get from the retail store will be that you can do it cheaper which is incorrect. Prices of Marine fish/coral is always going to go up due to world demand and collection restrictions. my advice is do it right the first time. get a decent book like the modern reef aquarium, cost about $150, but will save you thousands in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 That 10 kg of rock is just what I'm going to put in to begin with along with whatever rocks I can collect. If you prefer think of it as me throwing it all in a large glass bucket in my computer room to cycle. As far as goldfish fitting the budget better, did you used to own discus and then upgrade to a reef tank because they weren't elitist enough for you? I'm sure your fellow reefers will thank you for doing your best to discourage those nasty commoners trying to set up a tank within their pathetic little budget. And I'm not even sure what I'd spend $4000 on equipment for just a 200L FOWLR tank unless I used the ground up bones of swedish barmaids as substrate. Somehow I doubt that would be available anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJackJack Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 HAHAHA.... that was an awesome post ira! made me giggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Stop the attitude, stop the name calling. IRA. REEF is making a point (just not very well). Keeping marines is expensive, and the costs will climb as you learn more and need more for them. The point is that if you don't have the budget to see it through, you will fail. I have seen REEFs tank, and its one of the most successful tanks in NZ, REEF also spends more time than anyone else I know of helping others sort out there tanks when they crash. I know that the biggest problem he runs into is money, people just don't spend enough to allow themself to become successful. 4k may seem high for a 200L tank, but the costs will climb very quickly. You have yet to sort out a freshwater filter, water supliments and test kits, timers, lights, more rock, heating, cooling not to mention stock. 5 fish will cost at least $500.00. REEF is right, 10KG is not enough rock, get it all now, the rock is the filter and the single most important piece. It will want to cycle for months. There is no suitable rock from the ocean in NZ. I get my water from the south coast (the cook straight). I carry it in 20L jerry cans. Any other way sounds like hard work. That book Reef mentioned is excellent. TFH by Tullock and its one of the 'bibles'. I think the Hutt Pet Centre has a copy and its about $110.00 from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 By freshwater filter, I assume you mean RO/DI? Any evaporation at the moment will be practically nothing at the moment since I'm not going to leave the top off the tank for cooling. If I do need to add water I'll just use my tap water(Rain water). Given the massive innefficiency of RO filters and my limited water supply, it's not a good idea. Water supplements: I'll wait to get them until I need them which I won't immediately because for several months it's just going to be some stuff from the beach, nothing like corals for a LONG time. Test kits:Yes, I will need a few new test kits, right now I think I'll just need to buy a high range PH test kit and hardness Timers: Got timers. Lights:Got lights, may replace the tubes. Enough for now, won't need anything much stronger unless I want corals or similar and I'm just aiming at fish right now. Rock: Yes, I know I need more rock, but I'm doing my best to convince the budget of that, otherwise I'll add it as I can afford it. Heating: I've got heaters. Cooling: Won't and haven't needed it as the 60 watts of lighting over the tank doesn't exactly put out much waste heat. Stock: Will wait until the tank is ready but last time I checked prices for the fish I'd like it came out to $250. Skimmer: Still haven't sorted that out but will be the next big purchase if I can find a good one available in NZ otherwise I might just order a AquaC Remora from the US. Water storage: Still need to sort it out. Removing the current tank residents: They're getting demoted to a 100L Hex. New Residents: Whatever I can catch/find for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briank Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi Ira, found this power compact advertised on reefonline.co.au. It run at 130W only (or the equivalent 400W of incandescent light power). No need for ballast and a very good price, $73 (not sure if its AUD or USD). http://www.reefonline.com.au/shop/produ ... cts_id=214 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hmmm, Yeah, that does seem pretty good, I think that's $au since it's an aussie website. Be much better than even a second hand MH. Just need to get a cheap standard light socket it looks like, so be about $100 give or take. I've added it to my favorites for later when I want to upgrade my lighting. I might check and see what Lamp Specialists have too whan I do, they seemed to have a good selection of screw in flourescents like that when I was there last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 It doesn't look like a bad price at all. Placemakers sell 6500k screw/bayonet PCs like that (not as big) for about $5ea. I suspect that you will be better of with just normal fluro tubes? You can buy 6500 daylight tubes (t8) for less than $15.00 and 6000k Daylight for less than $10.00. There are a lot of 2nd hand halides in auckland, or new for $250 with bulbs (which are over $125ea), all wired and ready to go with reflectors. You will also want to use at least 1 blue light, the best a phillips "03 actinic blue". You can get these from lame specialists and they are about $30.00 for a 4ft from memory. From an athestic pointof view, halide lights provide 'glitter lines' accross the tank, which look very cool. You don't get them with fluros. I would just go with fluros first, and then after its been up and running you can decide what to do. A lot of people use t8s and nothing else in shallow tanks to great effect. Remember its only for some coral that you need the super lighting system, otherwise all that will happen is the light energy will fuel algae. Mushroom anomnes, some stoney corals etc all like the less intense subdued lighting provided by not using halide anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I've got the tank emptiedand the rock in it. One of the pieces was too big to put in without removing the hood and the way it's sitting it's only about an inch narrower than the tank. hehe. Waiting for my powerheads still, I think the order either never got made or they lost it. Anyway, they've ordered them AGAIN. Going to pick up some sand from Pies tomorrow then hopefully the powerheads will show up soon because I plan on going on a trip to the ocean around new years. I still need to pick up some new flouro tubes, but that can wait. Only concern I have at the moment, I've got the rocks on some UGF plates to spread out any pressure points from the rocks, did the same when it was FW. But if I should only have about 1 cm of sand then that's not even going to cover the plates, they're about 1.5-2cm thick. No huge deal removing them, but I'd be worried about pressure points on the glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Once water is in the tank you should be fine. If you have a piece to big, i've got some stuff, perhapps swap if you like? Keep the sand bed shallow, this is factual and my biggest mistake. Reef warned me, I didn't listen. Now I am syphoning out some. Ira, I will give you some 'live sand' from my tank to help seed it if you want. Sounds like its all comming together. Let me know what tubes you end up buying and what prices. Remeber if you get them from a trade store like MASTER TRADE ask for 30% off cash trade. You will get it, no problem but they won't offer it to you. This is what I do "You guys give me 30%", "sure". No drama. See you tommorow. pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Ok, went to the ocean today. Caught 2 big shrimp(Glass shrimp?) about 2" long, 2 tiny ones, a big goby thing about 2", about 2 tiny ones, 2 big snails, a handful of medium snails and a handful of small snails. Oh, and a small crab and some limpet thing that I'm currently trying to figure out how to get detached from the bottom of the bucket. It's fascinating how you can look in a pool, "Hmmm, It's empty." Then look closer and suddenly fish, snails, shrimp, anemones all appear out of nowhere. Anyway, that's where the fun stopped. Someone should have reminded me of a couple things. First, 25L jerry cans are really heavy and that low tied means you have to walk even further through the sand and it's even more of a climb back to the car. I was fu...Err, exhausted after the first load of water and had to do 5! And the tank is only 2/3 full! I'm not exactly in good shape, even worse it was ridiculously hot, which wasn't a problem just wandering around poking around in rocks, but I think I gave myself heatstroke hauling the water about 100 feet and 20 feet up from the ocean. I'm definitely going to have to rethink how to get the water. The powerheads I was going to use for circulation haven't show up yet so for now I'm using a couple of Fluval 2s without the filter part and the tank is unheated for the moment, so it's at just under 23°. Everyone seems ok so far. The gobies are looking around and the glass shrimp, up until a few minutes ago, were swimming back and forth in front of the glass. They're pretty little things. Now I realized I'm not quite sure what to feed them. I think tonight I'll just give them a small pinch of bloodworms, a small pinch of whiteworms and a small pinch of flake and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 You think you had problems, I had to bring in 1 metric ton of water in jerry cans. I know that its 'all free' etc, but don't you expect to have problems adding live stock to a tank that didn't have any water in it a day ago? Won't you be dooming the livestock? Patience is required. Let the tank cycle, at least a little. If someone posted on here saying "today i brought a fish tank, some fish, some fish food and a heater, got home, put them all in the tank but after a few days things started dieing" people would be very critical. Feeding. Studies have shown that you should only feed animals from the sea with animals and plant life from the sea. Although you animals may eat blood worms, white worms, lettuce etc, its proven that they have a detrimental effect on livestock. Hence the popularity of brineshrimp and nori. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 One of the smaller fish had a feast on the whiteworms and I caught a glass shrimp nibbling on a piece of bloodworm. So that's promising. The closest ID of the fish is a "Variable Triplefin" going by the labeling of this picture...(oops, big picture) Just noticed the same shrimp I caught in the background too. And I still can't get that d*mn chiton off the bottom of my bucket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 When I set up my cold water marine I added everything at once and had no problems. I assumed it was because there were lots of microscopic greeblies in the water and sand for everything to feed on. Certainly nothing died. Considering the size of the inhabitants though the tank was lightly stocked. The triplefins were the largest creatures at around 5cm and we had 4 of them from memory. Most of our critters were shrimps, starfish and anemones. Those chitons are buggers to get off once they have stuck themselves down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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