MRSkz Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Firstly let me say I'm just going to state the facts in my case and would love to here about other's and there transactions. I'm going to start off by saying that I've dealt with a lot of very good people both buying and selling fish and this has been the first time I've had such problems. I will also say that I've had this person send me fish, not there own, before with no worries. Two and a half months ago I contacted someone who will remain nameless (SWWRN for short) telling them that I spoted someone else selling the same fish, and same size for half the price. I asked if I could get that price from them and they agreed. I ordered a batch of 5 GBA's 2-3cm and happily paid for them. Due to courier complications they didn't arrive until 3pm on the expected day. All 5, in the same bag were dead. The water was a chilly 10-11c. Disappointed but not disheartened I went ahead and put a second order in for 6 leaving specific instructions for them to be shipped 3 in one bag 3 in another. I cheekily mentioned they could throw an extra couple in, if they wanted to to help ease the pain of my first loss. There reply was that they had already reduced the price for me, fair enough. There were no courier complications and all arrived safe and well (last week in August). I happily put my new purchases into a tank with some electric yellow and blue zebra babies (no more than 2cm in size). They remained there for 2-3 weeks this is when I lost the first one. I started noticing that the GBA's were getting picked on so decided to move them into there own tank which I had used before. I kept them in there very own tank by themselves for another 3-4 weeks and in this time I lost one more. I decided to move them to there permanent home, instead of just a grow out tank after I removed my red tailed shark from the 3 footer so in they went. Now the begging of November I have 1 GBA left from this expereince. The 4 that went into the 3 foot tank a week or two ago have died off one by one with only the odd killie fish dieing (of old age?? as they were given to me I can't be 100% sure about that though) in that tank as well. Now the question you are all asking, what is in that tank, well here's the run down 5 cories, 20 neons, 12 danios, 10 guppies, 1 b/n (took out the two big fat females to breed with the male before the GBA's went in), 1 male and 1 female apistogramma agassiziis, 2 blue rams and none, I repeat none have been added after the GBA's and none have been added less than 3-4 weeks before the GBA's. Noticed deformities, yes there have been 2 that have shown up in the short time I've had these guys. The first I noticed was one of them looked like it had the back of it's head munched, while it was alive, but I couldn't catch it to have a look at it then it died. The last one that died, today, I noticed that it's bottom lip was "split". There is nothing there to suspect injury has caused this. So tell me, $110 for fish and $50 shipping, is this value for money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishkeepa Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 sorry to hear about you loses I have no experience with these fish so i cant help you sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 I'm sorry for your GBA's they are great fish i know i have ,breed and sell them myself , ( it was not me you got them from BTW ) but it sound to me you were either very unlucky ( the first batch was bad timeing on the couriers side ) and if you had them for 3-4 weeks i'd say it would be hard to blame the seller if, 1 you knew the size you ordered and 2, they arrived healthy and alive. Just seems like a case of fish die, change of water ( from the seller and then through 2 or 3 of your tanks, change of food, change of tankmates even who knows. I'm just sorry you lost the little guys :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 oh did I forget to mention I got a pair 2-3cm in size some time ago now, they just didn't get around to breeding before I took a cave ornament out that, sadly, had the male in it. So I have successfully kept them from that size to breed able size before. I've also have kept B/N's in all those tanks, at any one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 sorry to hear about thefish mate... Like MV said these are very touchy fish because of their past. I breed these guys myself and have noticed that they do not grow up as fast as some of my other fish. whih is a problem from inbreeding (saw it on PC). You could always try another breeder. Good luck and hope it gets better for you 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Im still new to this game, but if i was to keep trying i would look at using a group of breeders (may sort out inbreeding with what you then breed). Put them in there own tank and leave them there for longer...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljtan55 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Ow.. that is a lot of money, you could have bought 3 rhino whiptails, or a fancy pleco by the end of that experience. Sorry for your loss MRSkz, better luck for the future. Are you still going to keep on trying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Oh yes I will get more, off a different supplier. I might even end up getting 2 lots off 2 different people from 2 different locations just to hedge my bets. However it seem to me a little sus when I had gotten just 2 off another person some time ago now and I managed to raise them just fine. They also did a bit of tank hoping even had them in with the adult cichlids for a bit. Sadly I don't have either of those anymore, I no longer keep ornimants either so the fish can't get stuck in them just natural rocks. I also gave the new boy a scolding for being to rough with the old girl and killing her. Suppose some alone time will teach him. I had hoped to fined a breeding pair/trio out there but I don't know that anyone that has them wants to sell so I might have to go for the young one's. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone in the south island with some for sale, as I do have someone in the north island that has offered me a very good deal on the smaller ones. I also now have numerous tanks sitting empty, due to recent purchases, ready and willing to be set up just for little gba's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 lol i had the same thing with bristlenoses a while back lost about 15 of them and all with no obvious problems everything else in the tank even had blue rams breeding in there.. They all came from different places tried everything but just kept loosing them.. Recently ive been keeping them alive but only in my african tanks with high ph and hard water so who knows! Sounds like you just had a bad run or the fish didn't like what was happening, my feelings are if they are any reasonable size and you've had them 3-4 weeks its unlikely to be any fault of the breeder because they were bred and raised to the size in the first place and if the breeder breeds and sells alot of fish you can usually trust them. Sounds like you had hard luck.. Maybe GBA's are just the one fish you want to keep but for whatever reason they just dont work out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 I have kept them. I had 2 that I got off another person some time ago now and only recently did I, threw my own fault, loose the male. I put the female with another male I got down and he was a bit rough with her and she died from injuries due to breeding attempts. I had had them since they were about 3cm and I had had no previous problems with them. I'll say one thing about the person I got these off of. I have been made aware of other people having problems with there shipments from this person. However I myself have had them ship me fish some time back now with no incidents. So I won't make further comments on an experience that is not my own. Funnily enough the fish that I have yet to keep successfully, for more than 3 months, is the male betta. Oh yes and dwarf gourami's seem to keep dieing on me, well the 3 I ended up with some time ago now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Not sure how many litres in your 3ft tank as you don't give other dimensions but are you saying you added these fish to the tank that already had 52 other fish in it? What were the test readings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 good luck http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 436771.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 thanks fishboi I saw that. going to give that a try firstly and if that doesn't work then I'll go for the smaller one's. Caryl the tank is a very well established tank I've had up and running for a year now. I've done all the tests and have had very little readings for anything. I'm very good at keeping up the water changes and I run an internal filter doing 1000lt per hour. The adults that I did have were in that tank and were happy as well so... Update, I've moved the 3 footer and upon catching the last remaining gba noticed one of it's eyes is sunkin looking and black (compleatly dialated?) Do I hear the sound of the toilet flushing on this last batch as well?? I hope not but we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I am not suggesting this is so in your case but it is possible to have a well established tank that has been set up with no problems but every time the owner adds more fish they die, although the original inhabitants are fine. This can be because the water conditions are not right, or poor, but because they got that way over a long period of time, the original inhabitants learned to cope with it. Any new additions however have major problems and get sick and/or die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I understand Caryl I had inherited a number of the fish probably 3-5 months before I put the GBA's in. Also I had added the neons and rams about a month before I got the GBA's so.... The original inhabitants are the guppies, apistos, and cories. When I inherited the fish and poped them in the 3 footer I thought "hmmm I WAS seriously understocked". I always seemed to keep the 3 footer about half stocked so now it's just nicely full, for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 The last gba from that seller has died with no odvious cause, however a sub adult (male I believe) is living happily in that very same tank. I hold serious concerns if, as I suspect, this problem is because of genetics as there appears to have been defects in the fish themselves, not caused by injuries. I am left to wonder about the belief that "inbreeding does not cause defects in fish". I don't know if inbreeding is the case here and won't speculate on that. I am certain, however, that these specific gba's were not as resiliant as others. So I'd have to say, all in all, not my best experience but I'm still not put off buying from out of towners and getting fish shipped or even the gba's. I'll be buying again, from another breeder, and am sure that my next experience, as most of them have been, will be a much happier one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 inbreeding does cause defects and other genetic weaknesses in fish if its done too much. inbreeding is done alot in this hobby sadly and soon some will be left pondering why certain fish have certain problems like dogs do (ie rotties and their hips). im not saying this is the case either, catfish are pretty secretive fish compared to most and its possible they may have had something internal that would be almost impossible to diagnose by your average fish keeper? ive had batches of fish seemingly healthy die off one by one that all came from the same place and i couldnt diagnose it either either way im sorry for your loss MRSkz i do hope your next purchases go well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Inbreeding does cause probs in any direction you wish to wander (proven) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowfax Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 yip i heard that to & after my dwarf gouramis started keeling over i put it down to inbreeding. so if you are looking at breeding fish shouldn't you get you male & females from different breeders? otherwise i would guess you are breeding brothers & sister????? not sure how much it matters in the fish world, i breed rabbits & its not something i would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 just been watching this auction, i am glad that Steve won the auction. they're going to be looked after very well. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... d=76436771 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malawi_man Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 far out! that price is crazy! $66 ea. I have 3 male and 6 female GBA almost adults now and you wouldn't believe me if I told you what I payed for them! My have bred before and i have 31 fry at 2cm and the male is sitting in his pot right now with 3 females sitting outside hopefully getting ready to breed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Haha thats not tooo bad, I paid $300 for my group of gba's (1 male and 3 fem lol) thats $75 each but yea im crazy! I just wanted them then and there, so thats what I got for been impatient, but theyre neat fish and thats only 30 fry at 10bux each, go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malawi_man Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 just to make everyone envyous I paid $5 at 2cm not saying where though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboi Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 far out! that price is crazy! $66 ea. na, a good size pair can be $100 each. difference been a good size pair can produce well over 100 fry per spawn. i know of a guy who has around 200 fry a spawn u know who u are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRSkz Posted November 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 congradulations to the person that decided they had to have it more than I did. Think I'll leave my comments at that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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