Anemone doctor

[ghostface]

I have a LTA that has spat all of its zoo's. It has been about a month since this happened, and it is all white someone suggested that taking a tentacle from another anemone and feeding it to my one may seed the zooanthellae it needs to recover, as it cant get it form the water in a closed environment like our tanks. my UV probably doesnt help keep things like that alive in the water collumn.

Is anyone keen to donate / sell / horse trade a tentacle from their LTA to save a life? it used to be light-ish brown with blue tips, not sure if it needs to be the same type, or if the zooanthellae are generic in anemones.

[jetskisteve]

sound like crap to me! anyone else heard that?

[lduncan]

Well first things, the anemone doesn't really have a choice in what symbiots it houses. That decision is made by the zooxanthellae. They choose which hosts they "infect". So feeding it zooxanthellae from another anemone is no guarantee that it will transfer them, it may, or may not.

There will still be zooxanthellae in the anemone. They will come back given time.

However in the mean time, it would be a good idea to feed it meaty foods, so that it doesn't wither away.

Layton

[Fay]

I have nursed my two LTA'S back to good health they both dropped their zooxanthellae.

First you need MH for lights

Second you need to feed it everyday if it doesn't take it don't worry it will eat when it wants, but needs to be offered meat I use whitebait, if you don't it will eat it's own flesh.

Third I have been adding reefbooster to the tank I'm sure this has helped

Forth I give mine some cyclopeze a couple of times a week

Fifth don't over carbon the tank

Six keep you water KH Mag etc higher end of scale

Seventh don't be in a hurry its taken one and a half years to bring mine back.

Wasp thought I would lose them.

Good luck

[wasp]

May as well "fess up", it was me that said this to Ghostface :oops:

This was based on an article I read on the subject some years ago, I've done a web search but not been able to find it.

Seems there is not much info available on this at a more advanced level, however here are a couple of somewhat useful links.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=772446

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/1/aafeature1

I saw Ghostfaces anemone last night, following a temperature problem Ghostface had the anemone is now a rather sad sight, completely bleached, and shrivelled.

As far as attempting to introduce some new zooxanthellae for it, the way I see it is even if it doesn't work, what's to lose?

As there are many different types of zooxanthellae, the best plan would be if another owner of an LTA could volunteer a tentacle to supply a new source of zoos, but if this doesn't happen I will give one from my BTA, however as it is a different species perhaps using different zoos, this would be second choice after a LTA.

No offense Jetski , I'll have to give you that the idea does sound like crap :lol: , perhaps it is, this does not yet seem to have been fully researched in an aquarium situation. None the less, the anemone does look to me like it will definately be lost if nothing is done, so I'm hoping this can be given a shot .

[wasp]

Wasp thought I would lose them.

Good luck

True, I remember that, they did look pretty knackered, a remarkable achievement bringing them back Fay.

Question, I can't remember - Did you have other anemones in the tank that could have supplied them, through the water, with new zooxanthellae?

[Pies]

There is mention about this on RC by Eric Bourneman, where it has been witnissed that bleeched coral can change colour, but from memory it was rare and no replicateable. I think it may also be mentioned in his Corals book, if not Reefkeeping magizine.

[Fay]

Question, I can't remember - Did you have other anemones in the tank that could have supplied them, through the water, with new zooxanthellae?

If that is possible then yes

[jetskisteve]

well thats why were all here to learn

[TM]

There may be some truth in it, however i am not in a position to confirm this.

There have also have been reports of bleached sps changing color completly with the introduction of zooanthelle, allthough this is very very rare

I have read i clam propogation, in closed systems, there is a need to introduce zooanthelle to the baby clams as they are not able to produce them by themselves.

I think it was boreman or a. calfo that mentioned it.

[Ira]

What I've wondered isn't feeding the anemone another one's tentacle, but what about taking the tentacle, grinding it up and then putting it in a centrifuge to seperate the zoox. Then what would happen if you injected the purified zoox into a bleached anemone with a syringe?

[tang]

8)

[lduncan]

What I've wondered isn't feeding the anemone another one's tentacle, but what about taking the tentacle, grinding it up and then putting it in a centrifuge to seperate the zoox. Then what would happen if you injected the purified zoox into a bleached anemone with a syringe?

You can't force it to do it. It must be a mutual "agreement" between the host and the zooxanthellae. The host must allow the type of clade you are introducing, and the zooxanthellae must decide whether it want's to live there.

The one thing the host has no control over is whether they stay put or not. Coral don't "expel" zoxanthellae, the zooxanthellae decide to get up and leave.

Clam propagation is one of the area where zoxanthellae transfer is known to occur. Small clams don't start life with a "starter culture" of zoxanthellae like most corals/anemones, so they must always get it from the water. Clam propagators intentionally kill pretty clams to release those specific clades in an attempt to get the baby clams to host those types, and carry through those colours.

So it can work. But just remember if it doesn't want to happen it won't.

[Duke]

Ask Steve he has an anemone which he won't mind cutting up

[TM]

What I've wondered isn't feeding the anemone another one's tentacle, but what about taking the tentacle, grinding it up and then putting it in a centrifuge to seperate the zoox. Then what would happen if you injected the purified zoox into a bleached anemone with a syringe?

spose it would work if, as layton said the anemone wanted it to happen, you would also have to put each zooanthelle into a certain spot in the anemone which i think would be hard

Trying to find the article on the acros can't find where i put it.

[wasp]

An article I read which included a bit about sexual spawning in clown hosting anemones, said the new baby anemones float in the plankton for a few days before settling, and do not have any zoos at this time, they "harvest" some from the water.

[TM]

An article I read which included a bit about sexual spawning in clown hosting anemones, said the new baby anemones float in the plankton for a few days before settling, and do not have any zoos at this time, they "harvest" some from the water.

yeah, sounds like the same story as the baby clams.

problem may be, with an adult, is that they can't take in any zooanthelle, they have to do it as babys.

You may find quite a few corals do this, well ones that are produced due to spawning, not asexual or division

[wasp]

Yes. I guess the energy expended in the "mother" furnishing each baby with zoos could be better used in mass producing more eggs, and they get their own zoos.

After a thorough search I can definately not find the origional article I read a few years back, but whoever wrote it was pretty definate that adult clown hosting anemones can collect zoos from the water column. The way it was explained, was that the whole thing is a survival mechanism. During some natural disaster or stress period, the anemone will expel it's zoos, and this can aid in slowing to a crawl the anemones metabolism, enabling it to last a long time in adverse conditions. After a time the anemone will have hopefully lasted until conditions have returned to normal, and will collect new zoos from the water.

Not saying that's 100% gospel, that's just what the article said and did appear to me at the time to make sense.

[lduncan]

I've always read that most corals and anemones inherit zooxanthellae starters from their parents during sexual spawning.

[lduncan]

One thing i've been thinking about is why would anemones and corals voluntarily expel one of their major sources of food, zooxanthellae, in times of stress? Surely that's when they need them most.

I think it's the zoxanthellae which decide that the grass is greener elsewhere and grow their flagellate parts and go swimming. And the coral / anemone has no choice in it.

[wasp]

I've always read that most corals and anemones inherit zooxanthellae starters from their parents during sexual spawning.

Oh well, I'm not going to argue over it you may be correct. Different to what I've read though, looks like, like me, you do not have the references to whatever it was you read?

[wasp]

One thing i've been thinking about is why would anemones and corals voluntarily expel one of their major sources of food, zooxanthellae, in times of stress? Surely that's when they need them most.

I think it's the zoxanthellae which decide that the grass is greener elsewhere and grow their flagellate parts and go swimming. And the coral / anemone has no choice in it.

Seems like we never agree on anything! :lol:

Anyhow, you will not get me into an argument over it I am certainly no expert. I must say though that through the reading I have done on the subject over the years, I have not once seen your viewpoint expressed.

Except this, which is correct and is how the zoos are available in the water column for harvesting

I think it's the zoxanthellae which decide that the grass is greener elsewhere and grow their flagellate parts and go swimming.

[lduncan]

Googled it and found some specifics, and some generalisations.

Some common anemones come with starter cultures:

Observations on Sexual Reproduction in Entacmaea and Stichodactyla:

...not only does the female brood the embryos for a short period but she also supplies them with their initial supply of zooxanthellae. As a result it is probable that these planulae can either settle very quickly and metamorphose into fully functional anemones, or they can spend a great deal of time in the plankton till they find a suitable substratum to settle on, without the need for feeding.

And it looks like that in general most tropic corals aquire them after spawing:

Early Development and Acquisition of Zooxanthellae in the Temperate Symbiotic Sea Anemone Anthopleura ballii (Cocks)

Hosts may acquire zooxanthellae either by maternal inheritance or from the surrounding seawater. Maternal inheritance is probably the rarer mechanism in the tropics. For example, while some reef corals inherit their symbionts (Lewis, 1974; Kojis and Quinn, 1981; Richmond, 1981; Babcock et al., 1986; Glynn et al., 1991), the vast majority of coral species spawn gametes that lack zooxanthellae (Babcock et al., 1986).

Either way, it looks like they are all capable of being "re-infected" by suitable clades during their lifetime.

Layton

[wasp]

Good research.

Can you supply the links so we can read the whole thing?

[lduncan]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... eature.htm

The next one isn't directly relevant, as it is talking about temperate anemones, but it briefly mentions some differences between tropical species. And it also references another study of 105 different corals which looks at whether they inherit, or are infected after spawning.

http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/full/205/1/66#R1