Tom_Shannon Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 what do u guys think if i cover the bottem with coral only dose the sand even do any thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Oh god..... This will be big..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 What does sand do? Traps detritus. Do you need it? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 What does sand do? Looks nice Do you need it? Probably not Do you want it? Up to you or.. you can go and read about DSB's, and make your choice about them as well. If it's just a thin layer on the bottom however, it won't act as one anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Very sedate tonight - 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Well the guy who has this tank has posted some thoughts on sand, and his method in general. Personally not what I would do, but I'm not going to argue with anyone who can get these results. He advocates Deep Sand Beds. I've cut & pasted from his web site below the pic. Quote "Over 12 years of reef keeping, I have kept tanks run with pure Berlin system, Jaubert's plenum plus skimmer, DSB plus skimmer with and without algae refugium, and with ZEOvit system. All systems have maintained healthy corals and good growth in my hands. Some systems have worked better in some points, but also in every system there has been some negative aspects. At the end of July 2005 I cut down many of the overgrown corals and removed some live rock and started to experiment with skimmerless setup. I also sold my calcium and kalkwasser reactors and started to use Balling method. The simpleReef was started. My experiences have been very positive. The setup is now very plain and natural, and it needs only a little maintenance. Corals and fishes look just magnificent. I will never go back to that classical high tech setup I used to have. I recommend this setup to all, to both beginners and to experts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Here's some more from his site - Quote- "Tapio's mini reef is run with the same simple method as was his nano reef. With this method it is possible to keep and grow even colourful sps corals in a small reef aquarium. The colours and the growth rate in our mini and nano have been almost the same as they are in my main aquarium. Water remains chrystal clear, nitrates and phosphates are nearzero, and the maintenance is minimal. There has been a slow growth of various macroalgae species and no harmful microalgae growth. Several zooplankton species multiply in our nano and they are eaten by clown fishes. This is simply the best method to keep succesful mini or nano reef aquarium. Technical equipment: 1) Aquarium Juwel® 120 l glass aquarium 80cm x 35cm x 43cm with a stand. 2) Filter and water flow Juwel® aquarium has integrated inside filter. This filter is filled with filter materials descriped below. Additional water flow is achieved with Maxi-Jet 1000 l/h pump equiped with Hydor FLO rotating water deflector. These pumps and rotating water deflector provide very good changing water flow in the tank. 3) Light Four 18w normal output fluorescent tubes are used. Two of the tubes are blue (Arcadia Marine Blue and Osram 67) and two are daylight (Arcadia Marine White and Hagen PowerGlo) tubes. They are driven by a single 2 x 54 w electric ballast. This gives you adequate light intensity to grow even colourful sps corals. I wouldn't use metal halide lights in mini or nano reefs. With fluorescent tubes you get much even and softer illumination of the tank and less heat problems. Beside the tubes there is a fan directed to water surface to provide adequate gas exchange in the tank and to keep the temperature at about 24-28 centigrades. 4) Reverse osmosis or deionisation unit You need good quality water to make saltwater changes and to compensate evaporation with fresh water. Aqualight AL1 di unit is an excellent choice and a cheap one if you have only mini or nano reef. This can really be all the technical equipment you need. The protein skimmer is totally unnecessary. In the tank we have 5cm of coral sand (0-2mm) in the bottom. It is better if you get some live sand from matured tanks. There is only about 8 kg live rock in the tank. The heart of this system is in the filter. In the lowest chamber there is Seachem denitrate in passive circulation (water can flow passing it). We have used about 0.5l in our filter. Seachem denitrate has high porosity to support both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria and it removes nitrates, nitrites and organics from water. You should exchange denitrate if the nitrates start to rise. In the upper chamber there is good quality coarse activated carbon like Eheim Ehvi Aktiv and coarse iron based phosphate remover like Korellen-zucht Biophos 2. They are in active circulation placed in the sparse filter bags so that the water runs freely through them. We used about 1 dl carbon and 1 dl Biophos in our filter. We change them every 1-2 months. We compensate evaporation by pouring about 1l fresh water every day to the aquarium. In the fresh water we mix about 1 tablespoon of CaCl2 or 1 tablespoon of NaHCO3 alternately to keep Calcium and KH in the nano in natural levels. Ca and KH values are controlled every 1-2 weeks and necessary adjustments are then made. We will automate Ca, KH and fresh water additions in near future. Also three drops of Korallen-zucht Aminoacid Concentration and one drop of Lugol's solution is added at the same time. 10% water change is done every week using Tropic Marin Pro Reef or hw Meersalz Professional, the salinity is kept at 35 ppt. The fish are fed daily with a little flake or frozen food". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Just should add, he calls his method the "simple" method. Maybe to him, but he does have 12 years experience. To anyone starting out, remember sand has pluses and minuses. The minus being it can catch and accumulate waste. If going with sand, just make sure you know how to manage it & the waste it can accumulate. If this can be achieved there are some good benefits to having sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Balling method Whats that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 more or less 2 part system that we use here. However the Balling method also takes into account the small changes in chemistry by using sodium chloride free salt. Calcium reactors are history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 what ever layton. Theres a whole lot of aquarists out there that dont agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 ... or don't know any better. They're told they need a calcium reactor to keep up with demand from stoney tanks. In reality, if instead of buying a calcium reactor, they bought a couple of dosing pumps, they'd find two part systems easier, and less expensive to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Can someone explain the balling method in a bit of detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 The trouble with you Layton, is that you state your opinions as fact. What experience, training, degrees, (massive ego maybe) do you have that makes your way the correct way, and every other way wrong. refugiums are wrong, calcium reactors are wrong, sand is wrong, zeovits wrong.......... Laytons ways right :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Although there are many ways to skin a cat, there is always one BEST way to do it. The thing is that the BEST way is not necessarily the same for everyone. What I try to do is get to the reason why people want to do something they way they do, then see if it makes sense. Taking the refugium as an example. Putting in a refugium with a primary focus on exporting waste IS wrong. Putting in a refugium because you like watching critters by torch light, sure. Like i've said all along, if your going to add something to your system, know what it does, and do it for the right reasons, don't justify it with flaky or plain wrong reasoning. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Calcium reactors are history ahh haaa haaaa, thats like saying having corals in a reef tank is a waste of time. layton, how about you explain to steve weast that running the deltec pf1000 calcium reactor in his reef tank is 'history' and that he should be buying 3 ton of chemicals and dosing using the balling method. also explain to him that his corals are getting poor growth and his water chemistry is all up the f@#$. then tell him that he should adopt the balling method because his tank is crap... oh, and just a reminder of how bad his tank really is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Hmmm... by that reaction anyone would think I claimed that calcium reactors don't work. I haven't, just that there are easier and less expensive ways than calcium reactors, now that people realise they don't have to buy 2 part in bottles from a shop. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 refugiums are wrong, calcium reactors are wrong, sand is wrong, zeovits wrong.......... Proof is in your results. I have sand, a refugium & a CA reactor. I would reccomend and encourage others to have the same, they work extremely well. If I was setting up a new tank, all 3 of these things would be present without question. Nothing wrong with the balling method, its a high maintenance soultion to the CA reactor, and does't provide as stable an environment as a reactor however (Layton can draw a graph to prove this). I fill my C02 bottle and reactor every 6-9 months, thats it. Piezola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 no matter what anyone says, you cant beat the look of nice crisp white sand i got sick of my streams pushing it around and finally got some 5mm to replace it with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Nothing wrong with the balling method, its a high maintenance soultion to the CA reactor, and does't provide as stable an environment as a reactor however (Layton can draw a graph to prove this). How is it high maintenance when setup on dosing pumps? How is it less stable, when setup on dosing pumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lti Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 add a sleeper goby. the sand will be continuously turned over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 i find dosing pumps much easier to use than a Ca reactor, i would never go back to a reactor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 I'm too cheap for a dosing pump or calcium reactor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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