Varanophile

Henward says; "Why would I need to call MAF about it" Anyone want to see it? PM me and I'll email you a copy. I do not want to post it on the forum for legal reasons.

MAF's case was very flawed. Thier own expert witness admitted to having kept Whites Tree Frogs. I pleaded guilty to avoid costs..fullstop. In time I am confident I can overturn the 'unauthorised goods' ruling. Now though I am just happy not have a criminal conviction and to only be slapped with a fine. If I won the case I would NOT be compensated my costs by MAF...figure that one out!

I take pride in the animals I sell and I honestly love the hobby. I am one of the only ones that pushes the envelope. Why do I do it? For ego? No. I do it because I love herpetology. There is no system, so sometimes there will be trouble. This is not my fault. When you look at your beardies or leos next time just think about it....you have them because Haisley sold them originally. People like Henward come and go. They love the sound of their own voice-hence his forum name is 'Henward'. I am quite happy in the background. Take it easy everybody and just think about what you would have done if you were in my shoes with the whole MAF thing. I would have probably won that case but I would be out of pocket many thousands. I would rather have more money to look after my critters.

My issue with you Henward is that you do not listen. And you are 2 faced. I told you very clearly in english that I could not sell you the frogs at that time as they were being investigated by MAF, but the MAF investigator told me they would be probably be fine. At that stage they were not unauthorised goods (that means bad Henward) Your case is that I lied to you and did not sell you the frogs? What? Take a big breath and think before you let your mouth run off. In your statement to MAF you say I told you that "MAF comes round to mine every week and they are fine with it." I never said they come around every week. This is you exaggerating, as you always do...take a trip down memory lane by looking at your previous posts...you have a personality defect that makes you insecure, so you talk everything up. After you came to my house with your girlfriend(yeah I was suprised too everybody) you called MAF on the 0800 number. This is fact. You are the one who posted comments about me first. I am just telling people and you how it is. What kind of person has as their motto 'interested in any weird reptiles or catfish', comes round tio someone's house, agrees with them that MAF sux and then calls MAF on their way home. Answer: YOU!! I may have my faults, but I am straight up. You would be dangerous if people took you seriously. Grow up. And remember not to throw stones if you live in a glass house. Note I let it go, but you just couldn't help yourself.....you had to be in the headlines by bad mouthing me. Maybe you will think twice next time before you try to be a big man. You are pathetic.

yeah. almost as good as fishing.

I'll play nice. Well nice-ish. I'm a little annoyed at Henward, but mostly just cocky as I can prove my side. Com'on Henward just admit what you did. I might even buy Domino's again. Take the lead from your boss..he admitted on t.v that your recipe is just not good enough. lol.

ok. good call. no slanging match. facts only. Fact: Henward is a MAF informant. Fact: Henward has a talent for 'embelishment'(can't say the word I want) Fact: Henward constantly proclaims he is looking for 'rare and unusual stuff' Fact: Henward complains about MAF investigating him, even though he called them after visiting my home numerous times Fact: Henward never purchased any Whites Tree Frogs from me

story of your life bro.

Man, get your facts straight.

'Mr Pace' is defending himself against allegations by 'Mr Tan'. I note moderators allowed comments to be made about be, but I am not allowed to defend myself..curious. If Henward is cool with it being up, and I am too, then can we have it back....please. I have the transcripts of Henward calling MAF and all the emails to back it up...can I post these, or will they be removed? This forum needs a bit of excitement! Com'on moderators put it back up. I didn't mean the pizza thing. lol.

Henward said "What did he say to me? "MAF visits there all the time and seem the frogs and said it was ok" LITERALLY this is what was said. I can speak of this as the case is finished in the courts - and as we can see publicised now" After the original visit by the MAF investigator I was told that the sale would probably be ok, but I was told not to sell any until the investigation was complete. This is what I told Henward. He would have paid on the spot, but I did not sell. Henward was calling MAF and volunteering false info to make himself seem important.

Anyone who pretends to be interested in someone else's animals and comes to their house, pretending to be their friend, leaves their house and then phones MAF needs to have their motives explored. I have never represented a situation for something it is not. I admitted to hormone treating frogs once upon a time (I admit that hormone treating was a silly thing to do). The whites tree frog ruling says it all. The judge believed that if I thought they were illegal I would not have advertised them on TM. I pleaded guilty on the basis of a discharge without conviction to prevent further costs. I may yet appeal this decison and go for compensation. As much as i dislike the way MAF handled this....they could have just as easily jumped on any number of animals I have sold..leopards, beardeds, box torts...the thing I dislike the most is people like Henward. The ammount of help I gave Henward over the last few years is substantial. Anyone who says they are interersted in anything 'unusual' and then calls MAF and embelishs things to make themselves seem important is not someone I want to associate with. I have the documents to prove this too. If you have anything weird, or anything rare, you would be wise to steer clear of Henward. If there are no rules to govern this hobby, no 'list' that says what is legal and what is not, there is bound to be a grey area. I want to keep as many critters as I can without doing anything illegal. People like Henward, and all of you that jumped on the band wagon are in the hobby for your egos, not for the hobby in its pure sense. I am glad I know who you are. Henward stick to the other forum or making pizzas. Moderators please edit as you see fit, but please let this message remain, you have let the other messages discussing my character remain, so I think it only fair. Anyone can obtain the documents concerning the whites tree frogs under the 'official information act'...if you trust Henward, MAF, and some other people, I suggest you read these documents carefully. Have a good weekend peoples.

Testudo graeca ibera is Greek Spur Thighed Geochelone sulcata is the African Spur Thighed...I think she just got a bit mixed up.

'The list' is a signed letter from The Minister in charge of ERMA/MAF/DOC.....NOT the weird list that was floating around a few years back with native geckos and capybaras on it. It is good if the TM person has the permits, but not necessary. The point is MAF knows that the TM person has the tortoises, and she is not a containment facility. Your point about Star Torts is interesting, but they are not one of 5 allowed in. Honestly...who knows why David Carter says that 5 species can be imported and all the others can't. Maf's logic is flawed and the Minister is acting on bad advice, but nevertheless there it is in writing...PM David R for a copy.

Apparently so...this is from TradeMe (Moderator this link is here for discussion not to promote a sale) http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 233469.htm "Hi what breeds can you legally keep in nz? thanks Matthew andrewc7 (202 ) 8:41 am, Fri 8 Jan The number is too long for me to remember butI have copies of import papers for Greek spur thighed, African spur sided, Hermanns, Elongated and several American species. There are more listed but I haven't gone through the papers for a long time. This means they were all legally imported into NZ prior to 1990 10:39 am, Fri 8 Jan " Elongated is Peach Faced is Yellow Headed Tortoise. The difference between these and Iguana iguana is that the iguana were never known to be legally in private/public hands....Peach faced (Indotestudo elongata ) are KNOWN to be in public hands in Palmy North. Also, iguanas are not one of 5 species allowed to be imported into N.Z as per the MINISTER's comments...the 5 being Alligators (not known in private hands), Salt Water Crocs (not known in private hands), Star Tortoises (not known in private hands), Madagascan Giant Day Geckos (In private hands but not officially recognized as such)...and finally Indotestudo elongata (known to be in private hands) Yes, these are CITES, but a CITES permit can be obtained easily as per what Charlie says. It is a piece of cake if they are from a licensed/recognized breeder. The only way the importation could be stopped is if MAF changed the law. If someone want to investigate then I am happy to put up some cash if the paperwork is approved. I'm not in NZ just now. THANKS TO DAVID ON THIS FORUM FOR MAKING THIS INFO AVAILABLE

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/gene ... sure-92405 have a look.

I disagree. You can import these without paying for a Health Standard to be created. You need to pay for the tortoises, the health check at point of origin, the air freight cost, and the quarantine this end. http://www.monkeyfrog.com/available_tortoisespage.html On what grounds could they deny you? Other tortoises are in zoos and private hands, as are these. Only difference is that you are LEGALLY allowed to import these already.

Just had a gander at the list of reptile species allowed to be imported into NZ, and the list of known species in containment in NZ (kept by zoos). Written by the HON. David Carter. Interesting...Yellow Headed Tortoises (Indotestudo elongata) aka Peach Faced are on the list of species allowed to be imported. MAF may argue they are containment only...however they are already known to be in public hands in Palmy North and are listed on a certain website. Surely this means someone can legally import these tortoises into NZ without the usual pile of paperwork....should be easy. Thoughts?? BTW- Regarding the table : "Exotic Reptiles held in Containment Facilities in New Zealand" There are at least half a dozen species missing from this list...and that is from a quick glance, and there are some that should not be on the list. What the hell are MAF doing...this list looks like it compiled by a bunch of dyslexic idiots. They can't even spell tortoise properly. Tax dollars at work:)

MAF's mandate is to create a system and keep accurate records. They have failed on both counts. If there was a clear cut list of what was allowed then smuggling would be less lucrative. There is demand in Europe and the USA for rarer species, especially CITES...I agree with you there. Paradoxically though, the best chance many of these species have is from there husbandry and breeding techniques being mastered by hobbyists. In my opinion a good hobbyist is at least equal to any science graduate working a zoo in terms of mastering the care and breeding of an animal. Waterdragons and red eared sliders are not a big threat. This is a PR beat-up. Sliders are mainly herbivourous/insectivorous and the w.d's also eat bugs. Most of the native skinks that they would compete with, and all the frogs pretty much have been decimated by rats and stoats and cats. Instead of worrying about w.d's and sliders lock your cat in at night. My torts and lizards are born and bred kiwis thanks. How come you can still buy rainbow lorikeets in auckland and not blueys???? ridiculous.

Bob Mallioux, the guy who started Sandfire Dragon Ranch, and probably the best authority on dragons in the world, was going to set up in NZ back in the 70's but decided the laws were too draconian.

You're missing the point. There is a permit for the iguanas. MAF does not have a record of it, they were pretty bad at keeping things like that back then for fish, plants, reptiles etc. The Iguanas should not have been killed. If there were accurate records then there would be no point in smuggling. Smuggling is viable as the whole hobby in NZ is grey, nothing is black or white. If there was a list of species that could be kept then people can easily tell what is kosher and what is not. Why not just admit that they mucked up and start fresh? There are no import permits for Beardies, if you owned a beardie "chillz" then technically MAF could prosecute you.

A system like this generates revenue. This revenue can be used for salaries of the officials policing it, wildlife conservation projects, or research. The Otago skink will be extinct in the wild in the next 10 years due to rodent predation unless $$$ are poured into saving it. Seriously, I think reptile keepers in NZ have the right to be pretty annoyed at the lack of accountablity, transparency and simple common sense from MAF. You are allowed to import cats that kill massive numbers of native fauna but they can't even tell you what is legal or create even a basic system to legitimise the reptile hobby. The exotic reptile hobby serves to educate people that reptiles are not cold and slimy or vicious. It aids in the conservation of native reptiles as people then see them as worthwhile. Policing animals that should not be in the country because they are a danger to native animals and prosecuting smugglers is the job of the authorities like MAF. Losing/misfiling/overlooking/ignoring an import permit for green iguanas, letting them be sold for several months despite them a) being publicly advertised and b) numerous articles on the iguanas appearing in national newspapers such as "The Herald", and then suddenly making them "unwanted organisms" and gassing them is pretty bad form. Some of those confiscated were in zoos. Iguana iguana is a herbivorous species from tropical countries. It can not metabolise native trees/plants with the exception of dandelion and puha. Its eggs will not hatch in NZ due to soil temp. The claim about them having the "Mt Pleasant" strain of Salmonella and this strain not previously being in NZ is rubbish. This was just used as the justification for outlawing them. The immense ammount of PUBLIC money used to kill these animals was just wrong. The fact that paperwork has come to light after the fact detailing that these animals were actually legally imported, but the permits "lost" is not suprising to those of us that understand the modus operandi of MAF. On the bright side though, they did manage to locate the paperwork for the iguanas at Napier Zoo, as it was stapled to the Zoo Licence....well done boys:) MAF guys...give us a list of what we can keep and start a licensing system. I'd set it up for you, but you couldn't afford my salary. Unless people such as those on this forum create pressure then these guys will just do what they have always done. These guys work for us. We pay their wages with our taxes. We deserve better.

Because the sun comes out at night an warms the rocks they walk over? I swear by the ceramics, most reptiles do not have nerves on their ventral surfaces and I have seen burns from heat rocks many times. Each to their own, just because it works for me doesn't mean it will work for you, and vice versa. Maybe I'll try heat pads when decent ones are available in NZ.

Yep. Repto's right. Also get a ceramic heat emmitter...elstein or similar. Heat mats are dodge.

ask yourself: why is there not a system like this in NZ? Is it because: a) MAF would have to admit that they failed to keep records of species that were legally imported into New Zealand and hence have no idea where to start b) They have no interest in things being black and white as they will be unable to justify their jobs c) They lack the expertise to create said system or my personal favourite d) all of the above