Varanophile

Most of them are very easy to keep and they do well in captivity. Do you have any experience with them- what have you based your opinion on?

I don't think anyone is arguing or debating with MAF here- people are just pointing out the flaws in the system and debating how the system can be changed. Getting IHS's completed ain't going to accomplish jack- we've covered that already. ERMA/MAF don't just hand out zoo licenses...you would need to be a zoo, not a hobbyist. People in the US and Europe do keep our natives...best chance they have IMO in terms of some of species not going extinct. Harlequin gecko's are CITES 1 but there is noone keeping them here as DOC doesn't give licenses to keep them. Too many native reptiles are on the edge but the native reptile hobby is pretty small here due to the restrictive regulations...we are not doing a great job protecting what we have here....any of you exotic keepers have experience with the native stuff?

15 years ago both Jackson's and Water Dragons were only in zoos, so yeah...good point why are water dragons in public hands but jackson's not. The problem is not just regulations that don't make sense but the inconsistency in the way the rules are applied.

or why can't we those that are already here. Prob. because they are a pest in hawaii- but anyone with any knowledge will argue against their ability to naturalise here. You can keep Jackson's chameleon in southern france which has similar seasons and temp to here and there has been no problem with them naturalising. There are some in public anyway I hear ex WLG zoo....same way the leo's were ex Otorohanga Kiwi House.

You seem pretty on to it Exotherman....so: How do you think 'we' can change the current policies on reptile keeping. Why are tropical fish and non tropical allowed to be imported...surely white cloud minnows could establish here? When there are as many reptile keepers as fish keepers is that the point there will be change? If we can prove having a system will generate income for the authorities would they do it?

Wow, that is a really impressive system. You think thay sense which powder has the D3? when you say you provide lighting you mean fluoro tubes?

Won't work as per the reasons above. If enough of you agree that we need change then we can make it happen...it'll be a long road though. MAF needs to be pressured to create a sysytem so that we all know where we stand. How many of you had your iguanas killed? Do you realise the exact same thing could have happened with your leopard geckos....that is until the above list from Jan 4th was made public....they have been in grey area until now.

Klass...that is a good one.

The point is..DON"T DO THINGS PURELY FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT THAT RISK THE HEALTH OF YOUR ANIMAL It's not about natural order or anything 'high brow'. Good Night.

Then i would like to know how photos of your brother collection, "is advancing knowledge of the hobby, improving the care of reptiles and sharing opinions."

Create a licensing system....or any system. People pay for their permits. Some of that money can go into conservation of natives. We know where we stand, they know where they stand. The lack of system means lots of work for MAF, but then they like that, looks good when they ask for funding. I don't want to be part of MAF, I want to raise awareness of the stupidity of the system and put pressure on them to change. It's not rocket science. Prob not a good idea just quietly for me to apply for a job at MAF. Is there a system and clear cut regulations on what reptiles you can keep in NZ..............NO Should there be one................................YES Who should be in charge of creating one............................MAF Has it been suggested...............................YES Would it be hard to do...........................NO Would it take long/cost alot of money.............NO x 2 What can we do to change it........................bitch about it on the forum They do read this forum

I keep them because I want to know more about them, and I enjoy it. I keep them as I make money from it. I enjoy helping people realise that reptiles are not scary- that's why I do Kid's expo's and help people out. I look after my stuff...well. If I need advice i ask for it. Nothing wrong with doing things that benefit me and the animals I keep. There is something wrong with people who do things that make them feel good without any benefit to the animal....

I will try to be more constructive oh wise one :sage: No I won't give you advice on your natives and goldfish. Importing reptiles? I never asked about it, and what does that have to do with the welfare of the animals. Whole thread about me? You seem to be missing the point. How many times have you asked for advice on the forum..seem to hand out alot of advice, but then again you are a sage :sage:

yep, they had more coin than me. Judge admitted MAF's case full of holes. shame, could have made some money off those frogs.

What what what what?? :facepalm: Try and follow your train of thought................. People used to eat people........should we be talking...do we eat sharks or do they eat us.... If a cat scares a blue tongue and noone knows...did it really happen? if someone does something dumb and noone else points it out..is it dumb? Or does it say something about the people on the forum?? Your comment is ridiculous- no offence intended.

other possible reasons too. hence the question...

just saw your signature: Giant bullies need high salt content in the water, so prob not good to keep with Cran's bullies which are entirely freshwater. And having koura in a 4 foot tank will stress the daylights out of your bullies. Maybe looks good....but it's about the animals, not you.

at least on the forum we can express our opinions....unlike, say a blue tongue on a cat. I thought this forum was for advancing knowledge of the hobby, improving the care of reptiles and sharing opinions. The first post in this thread does none of these. I said why I thought it was dumb, and then I tried to take the edge off my comments- it was not an apology. Too many of you try to anthropomorphosize your pets.....it's about the animal, not you!

MAF are inherently lazy and not the brightest....still got me tho :oops: They will not do anything that means more work for them, or requires them to have specialist knowledge- 8 of the grren iguanas seized and euthanized were chinese water dragons that were wrongly identified by the MAF reptile expert....that's like a fish expert misidentifying a clownfish as a goldfish because they both have a lovely orange colour. Pay your 20k for a risk assessment on poison darts, get it peer reviewed by experts that agree with you............and your application to import will be denied as they are still a disease risk due to chytrid fungus. The technical reason for nuking the iguanas after allowing their sale for so long was that they had a pathogen 'not known on New Zealand' previously- Mt Pleasnat Strain Salmonella.............ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh don't tell anyone it was found in Otago skinks years ago..........we need to justify our budget to the Minister. There are NO records for stuff that came in legally in the 60's and 70's- MAF biffed them or lost them...iguanas, beardeds, leo's, turtles, tortoises, shinglebacks... There are records for the legal importation of less than 10 of the nearly 200 species of exotic birds in N.Z. Technically you could be persecuted for owning a canary and have it seized- there is no import permit of health standard. MAF could have easily copied the permit system in Aus and released a list of what is allowed. WHY ARE FRILL NECK LIZARDS ON THE LIST OF ALLOWED REPTILES TO BE IN PUBLIC HANDS IN NZ???????????????????? (Taken in Western Australia honestly Orifacer) Any of you guys seen em?....or did they discover an old permit for their importation. Weird, but then they did have capybaras on the last list of reptiles. Winners :thup: Yeah I'll take a couple of komodo's and these if you find em...

Are you feeding just one type of food? Leo's get their D3 from their food...apparently If you give them D3 calcium and food with D3 it can cause big problems. I have mate that gave his beardeds D3 and put them outside. It paralysed them. Their movements are still twitchy as, which is ironic as this is a symptom of not enough D3. If your young got metabloic bone disease then there must have been a reason- it is either caused by not enough calcium, or not enough D3 or both. This year I have half a dozen emerge from eggs with twisted back legs, which have thankfully come right...until now I have made no distinction between calcium with or without D3...I just buy whatever is available. What do you other leo breeders use and what have you seen?

not an apology. :thup:

Anyone want to volunteer some of their animals? would be good to find out

There is that theory but most of the experts say: Nocturnal reptiles can absorb D3 from their prey animals. Diurnal can't. Can't be sure until someone spends millions on examining metabolic pathways in reptiles...which aint likely. Bottom line...don't feed vitamin D to your leopards.

Ha ha ha. Very good. I'll pull my head in now. You obviously know what you are doing....but some dumb-ss looking at the forum will copy you with his leopard gecko and his moggie, I just don't see the poinit in doing it and writing a thread about it.

save on freight though, if you bring over with some komodo's