jn

That's a seriously good offer dcase. Think of how peeved you'll be if your bargain fish all die and you have to buy them again near full price! Your tank is probably starting to spike now I bet...and then there is the nitrite. Ammonia is one thing, but when the filter is just starting to work, the first stage is conversion to nitrite (not nitrate.. this is different) and nitrites are more toxic to the fish than ammonia. This will be like fish hell for your guys...it's different if you add only a few fish, the spikes are smaller and shorter lived and the fish will cope but this is really throwing them in the deep end. The amount and frequency of water changes you'll need to keep them alive you'll soon go off fishkeeping (water changes twice a day that someone mentioned below was not an exaggeration!) Plus if your fish are exposed to alot of stress it'll make them susceptible to illness so you may finish the cycle and come up on a whole new raft of problems. Even a lightly stocked tank takes a couple weeks to finish cycling I wouldn't dare guess how long it would take in your case. Oh.. and I'm not sure if it's been said yet, but until you sort them out, feed them but only barely! The more they eat the more ammonia they produce. Take up the offer Loopy is one of the best experts here in chch I'm sure! All hail Loopy (and when you're all sorted post some pictures and let the fun begin! I just bought an AR620 myself but haven't set it up yet!!)

Are they swimming? Do they go along on their sides or does one get stuck upside down?

I had to have a wee giggle... if 'quack' is a he .. he might be perfectly happy to have a group of women in stilettos standing where his tank should go :lol:

How effective would covering the tanks with blankets be? I guess polystrene and then blankets would be best? Maybe you should all keep sheets of poly tucked away for emergencies

Hey Janelle, I think Organism still had some Borneo suckers on their stock list if you want more. He posts an update every Friday (or just about) in the commercial trade and exchange section so keep an eye out. michael.qian : I'd be interested to know what sort of temp your coldwater tanks get down to in AKL just out of curiosity. Mine here in chch is sitting around 12 and warms up to about 15 after running the fireplace for a while (it's in the next room) but always cools back down to 12 by morning. Ianab: I had ice on the inside of my windows on Sunday morning.. didn't start thawing till after noon!! Brrrrrrrr! Of course this is better than flooding or tornadoes so can't complain too much!!! If the sun would just come out once in a while I'd be very impressed! It's been awfully 'shy' lately!

I decided to give the the sulking minnow a salt bath thinking it might help clear his gills a little and improve any treatment I might do on the whole tank. (He does actually come up to the top albeit infrequently and he is eating and swimming fine when he bothers). The other minnows stay near the top/middle. I found a website that recommended a short bath of 20g/L (sounded like a bit much actually!) for 20 mins. I measured out 1L of water. Dissolved 19g (electronic scale - accurate to 1g) of no-additive coarse sea-salt in a separate pottle of water (maybe about 100mls) then slowly added a very small amount of the salt mix (a couple ml's max) to the 1L of freshwater and set the timer. Within about a minute the fish lost balance and went upside down! I quickly popped him back into the tank. Do they not tolerate salt? All up I've finding the WCMM's to not be very tolerant to additives. I don't expect he was in the salt long enough to do any good! He's back to his previous state. Hanging around the bottom corner (opposite the filter, not at the intake). Nobody else is showing any signs of trouble, and this guy only has red gills (not laboured breathing at all). He's doesn't seem weak. Just wants to stay out of the water flow under a leaf, he swims with enough vigour when he bothers. Could he be unhappy about the cold? (it's 12 degrees, nobody else is minding) He looked like he was flashing yesterday before I 'dipped' him but I think this was at his own relfection in the glass and almost looked more like showing off than itching (he really eyeballed his reflection before jumping at it! did it 3-4 times and then just went about eating before going back to hover in the corner) There is only 1 female to 3 males. Could he just have been 'ousted' by the others? (Maybe the 2 that died recently were his gang?) If his red gills are just irritation from the previous problem how long would it take to heal? (I can try to take a pic but he very rarely comes up out of the plants!). Are fluketabs gentle? I've heard that prazi is pretty gentle. This is not so much about treating the actual minnow as it is about working out how to know what's wrong and how/when to treat and what to expect. I'm also hoping to get some more fish soon so I really want to make sure I start with a clean slate (and I am not sharing equipment between my goldfish 'bin' and my tank to be sure!) (what I really need is to invite a fish expert over for a cup of coffee!!)

I have some 'baby' goldfish in a plastic tub indoors (waiting for spring to go backoutside) and their water gets cold. When I change it I often add some warmer water. Many of the tropical folks do their water changes with cold water with no problems so I'd assume the reverse could be true. It will of course only cool back down but the forecast looks like it won't be as cold overnight as it has been lately so maybe if you can get the temp up a bit it would have a better chance of staying that way. Can you heat the room? Or maybe move the fish into a bucket and keep that in a warm room till you work something else out if it means keeping it alive?

If the other is alive maybe you can do some warm water changes to help? get the water up a few degrees until you get a heater? What a bummer. They're not cheap either huh?! Thanks for the update though. I'm still tempted to get some but after speaking to you I was pretty sure I'd need a heater as well! (I might bite the bullet and get one for my bigger tank once I set it up cause with the houses so cold it really does seriously limit the options!) Hope you find the other and that it recovers!

Hi all, I had some trouble a while back with some WCMM's after stupidly adding some baby shubinkins to my tank. At the time is seemed like gill flukes. I treated with Wunder cure (malachite green. methl. blue, acriflavine, quinine). I moved the shubunkins back into a plastic bin, took out the 2 affected WCMM's and treated them in a bucket as a 'test' (they both died from the full strength treatment). I then treated the tank and the plastic bin with a lesser does of the Wunder cure (about half strength.. stopped adding it at the first sign of discomfort! the shubunkins were happy at a higher dose than the WCMM's) I dosed 3 times at 3-4 day intervals with 50% water changes by gravel vac between each new dose. This was a few weeks ago. One of the WCMM's is now back to hanging out at the bottom of the tank and has gone pale with irritated looking gills (red). The gills apear to be laying flat and not swollen out. I understand that there may have been eggs laying around and this is probably a new cycle. I want to be sure to be rid of this before I start up a bigger tank. I can repeat the wunder cure but am also prepared to try anything else. I know where I can get fluketabs and I have used prazi before on goldfish but what's best here? (I do have sheep and am out of drench anyway so if there are any fishkeeping farmers out there with a recommendation then fire away!) Where do I go from here? and how many times do I need to treat to ensure that's it's all gone?

Oh That would be awesome Wilson! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: (although I'm sorry to hear you're having to choose one over the other!) I was actually planning to ask you in a little while if you had any WCMM to sell me. I've only got 4 now, 2 died recently from a treatment for flukes but they're all clear now ! (can you tell me how many males/females? I only have 1 femal so if you have more M than F I might try to go buy a couple girls from Organism in the meantime!) I'll definitely take the leopard fish too plz!! Just pm me when you're ready with a price. I'll need to go pick up some more gravel from birdlings flat before I set my new tank up so if you have a rough idea of the time frame let me know so I can make sure I'm ready!

Hi all, Just picked up my new ar620 (90L) today. I'm planning on sticking with an unheated tank and I've read several snippets about zebra danios handling unheated tanks. What's the coldest anyone of you have kept them at? My tank is getting down to 12 degrees but more typically seems to sit at 14 (warmer in the evenings once the log burner kicks in!). I have WCMM and Jordanella and am hoping someone down here will have some leopard fish to sell in a few months (you guys know who I'm talking about!!) Then there were those borneo suckers I was considering. Thought in a 90L I could have 2 suckers and a small school each of danios, wcmm and leopardfish, plus my 3 jordanellas (which I am still completely besotted with.. they're really fun to watch.. tearing algae off my plants non-stop but never eating a single plant itself!!). Any comments? I'm not in a rush so may wait till spring so any new fish can acclimatise to the cooler temps slowly. May use my existing 30L tank for selective breeding of the wcmm or leopards so am not concerned about fry being eaten in the community tank. Are there barbs that stay small that can handle it this cold? (I will buy a heater if it boils down to it.. but am happy to push the limits of 'keeping it simple' so long as the fish don't suffer!!) Thanks.

Thanks Megs, Will definitely post an update if I find something suitable. I have used disposable gloves for many other tasks (usually nasty animal care related stuff like flystrike or injuries) The gloves always pierce at the worst times! They also tend to perish if they dry out so a good solid glove is still my preference

How long have your plants been in there? How long has your tank been established? If the plants are new they may have been grown out of the water (emersed). Those leaves would die off as new submersed ones grow in. (ie: if the leaves are dying they will be more prone to algae growth I think) Describe the algae That might help determine the source of the problem. Brown/Black/Green? Fuzzy/Slimy/Stringy? Short/Long?

I put my filter wool in a bucket of water and squeeze and rub it though like handwashing keep rinsing the water till it runs clear.

I'll wait and ask a relative in Canada to buy them for my next xmas present You have to co-operate when someone asks for a gift suggestion right?? :lol: Actually.. I double checked nzsafety website and they might have something. Just have to pop into a shop and check them out.

hmm.. not sure where I'd find a rubber band big enough to handle my floppy upper arms :lol: but ok...you all win (bloody #8-wire she'll be right kiwis :roll: ).. bye bye nice thick cotton lined warm rubber gloves.. hello 'up-a-cowsbackside-farm-cludge-make-do' gloves. (Can't a girl get some luxury once in a while - and to think I stopped breeding sheep 2 seasons ago and never had any obsetric gloves around even then!!)

ok.. I'll try some of these: http://www.shoof.co.nz/nzcatalogue/page_20.pdf but I still reckon someone should import some nice heavy duty ones like those aqua gloves (and that still might be me!). I'm not sure these will stand up to repeatedly picking stones and leaves off concrete and if they're going to leak then it defeats the purpose I'm going to be looking after these ponds for a long time...

Wilson: definitely Bishopdale would not my choice of where to buy liev fish from. I'll try the farm places again but most vet gloves are meant to used one at a time if you know what I mean so the other hand is free to grab it if it starts sliding off (I've checked 'shoof' who supplies farm stores too!)

I've seen long gloves but not fully waterproof elasticised ones. I've checked out websites like hunting/fishing sites and chemical safety websites. I've checked out farming websites/shops (CRT/Wrightsons) too but also never seen any there with elastics. Now if this type of glove fit tightly they would stay on, but usaully they don't , hence the desire for elastics! One of the ponds I have to deal with about 45 cm deep (starting at ground level) and has walls on 3 sides so I'm usually kneeling on a board laid across it reaching in and barely keeping my balance. The pump and filter sit at the bottom of the pond as do several water lily baskets. I need gloves that I won't have to keep picking up out of the pond! (Ideally I'd have a pair of waders too but they're too expensive!) This pond gets really mucky from being poorly designed and I don't fancy standing in it or having crap up to my armpits (I've done it before and a) froze b) got really grossed out from the slime and stink!!

If anyone knows where I can get a pair of these locally for $25 tops I'd be happy to buy them in NZ and the need for my order from overseas would disappear! :-? http://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Gloves-Pair- ... 09&sr=1-18

Hey Wilson, my WCMM's came from Organism and I expect after doing the rounds of all the fish shops in chch that they would be my first choice for buying fish (except if I ever need to buy goldfish, I think Redwood have the best selection and reasonable prices there) There's a wee pet shop in Bishopdale Mall who have excellent prices on tanks and stuff. (We're often at the new YMCA there) so its easy to pop in. Pet planet have excellent prices and because I've just been starting up, I've ordered buches of stuff all at once so the shipping costs have not been a factor (I also have 4 cats and Pet planet takes care of them too!) Does Organism sell tank solid black tank backgrounds (I'm picking up a second hand AR620 this Friday!!)

We often buy stuff from Amazon. Mainly second hand books, of the type that would normally be in the $60-100 range here (we also buy a huge amount of books from local shops!!) I'm only after some small stuff.. and only while the dollar is so good. Like ammonia refills for my test kits and some 'aquascaping' type equipment that I've never seen here. There's a neat tong/snip thing, and I need a pair of long pond gloves with an elastic at shoulder length as I do maintenance on 3 different ponds (often in very cold water!!) Mostly stuff I've never seen in the shops here. I'm all for loyalty and I'm actually about to place my 3rd order with pet planet and just about all my gear has come from them. But when you have the opportunity to get something for a quarter of the price there's no really good reason to pass it up. Like it or not, every internet shop is in competition with the others whether they're based in NZ or not. When the dollar goes high and the LFS has the benefit of importing on a good exchange rate they probably don't bother dropping their prices to reflect that. So I don't feel too quilty about seeking the benefit myself this time around. We've got some books to order too so might be able to get a combined shipping rate.

Hey all With the dollar being so high, some of the aquarium stuff is looking very cheap overseas (like water conditioner, test kits etc). Does anyone know if MAF allows these things to be ordered in for personal use if they are goods that are already cleared for sale here? (I don't expect them to let us bring stuff in that has never been approved)

Oh yeah. I have a pet heat pad. They indeed run with no thermostat (kind of crazy though for an animal I mean once they're tucked into a bed and warm the heat really accumulates!!) I used it for an injured cat and ran it on a timer so it would pulse on and off otherwise it got too hot for the poor thing! I suppose it could get leaned up against the back of a tank with a sheet of polystyrene behind it. Still haven't decided to get the suckers though (but my new trank should be in my eager hands by this weekend! Yay!)

No problem adding an extra aerator technically. (Although from what I've read, plants do better when the surface of the water is less disturbed.. but I'm sure there are a heap of folks on here with plants who also have airlines into their tanks) The aqua mode is the same sort of trickle filter as the AR380/620 etc. If you put in the filter layers in the order specified in the booklet and the water is circulating and trickling back into the tank then your filter will be working. You should rinse the white top layer often (i do mine every 10 days usually and I've found my algae problems seem to have reduced a little since I've been more careful with that - the gunk in the white filter wool will feed the algae - I don't have to rinse the black sponge as this tends to stay clean). If you are using a cartridge with carbon you might want to consider changing to something with no carbon as the plants may eventually need fertilizing and the carbon will reduce the effectiveness of the stuff you add. I buy the aqua one white filter wool in bulk packs from my LFS and cut it to size. I stopped using the carbon after asking folks here and being told most people don't use it either (and it's an extra expense you can do without!) I'm pretty new to fish keeping and I had bad algae for the fist several months. Apparenetly this is normal until the filter and tank 'mature' ecologically I guess. Keep cleaning it and add your plants and it should slow eventually. Also there are many different types of algae and they don't all have the same 'cure' so poke aroud the site and use the search and maybe post some pictures if yours doesnt' settle in the next few months. My tank is 7 months old now and full of plants and it's just starting to 'settle in' in the last month or so. There will probably be a period where plants you add will get covered in algae and die. Don't despair 8) . Be sure to take out plants that are dying or they will pollute the water and make the algae worse. Sometimes plants can be saved by taking them out and wiping most of the algae off. If you tank starts to smell VERY musty this is cyanobacteria and looks like algae but it a different problem. I would really REALLY look at buying some algae eaters I'd also say that until things settle, try changing the water more often. I would definitely say that if you don't know about cycling (as I didn't when I started!!) then this will explain your fish deaths. This should also be fixed if you change water weekly and don't add any more fish for a while. When you do start adding some more.. add only a few at a time. You might want to consider buying a freshwater master test kit. Once you understand these tests everything will make sense and you'll have a better idea of how often you should be changing your water. The aque one website says this has 2x11W PL bulbs which shold be pretty good for plants. It also says in the instructions, 8 hours of light is good. Volume for the tank is listed at 65L but with gravel etc probably you've got 55-60L water? http://www.aquaone.co.uk/instructions.php