Pies

I would choose to get my water from the South Coast over the west coast. But when I do get my water I get it from 'fiti ray a' (sp?) park. Just collect on the imcomming tide, and not from stagnint rock pools you will be fine. Perhapps next time I go out you want to meet up? Pieman

Layton - North island prices are 'typically' more expensive. Alois has brought them down a bit from what I understand, and I don't have a chance to visit the shops, and if I am in auckland and have time i'd rather visit Steve or Alois then go to the stores anyway. Last time I was in Christchurch Yellow tang was $125 & and clownfish where $30 and Powder Blues where $150. Petworld, redwoods where 'refurbishing' or similar. Last time I was in Auckland store Yellow Tang was $199, Flame Angel was $299, Clownfish was $79 (perc), Cleaner Shrimp were $89, Blue tangs where $45 small $85med. Most coral was $100 or more, often about $120. Like I have said, I am happy to pay a fair price. Maybee the prices are getting better, certainly looks like it, which is AWESOME. Pies

I am completely on side, completely. Shops have many positive attributes, particually regarding 'new-commers' etc. No arguement whatsoever. If we are talking about 'good shops' not the 'shonky' ones. For me, as for many others, its the fact that for many of us there is no 'value' gained from purchasing from a store, other than a 'feel good' for supporting locally. Price followed by quality are my drivers. For equipment just price. For stock, quality is important, and as you have said before this typically means getting it into your own tank ASAP and if you can avoid the store tanks, mores the better. (even if the store tanks are OK, 1 less tank hop is less stress). The state of 'the hobby' now, or in the future doesn't really concern me. Because in all honestly I don't think anything is going to drasticly effect it one way or the other. I am not sure if you know it buy I/we do a lot to support this hobby in NZ. I stay tuned to this forum, perhapps partly responsible for its popularity, certainly helped get people to use it initially. I write for the FNZAS bi monthly magazine when I get a chance. My partner Jane is a comitee member for the FNZAS and travels 1 weekend every few months to attend comitee meetings. Our house is like a bus station with the people who come through every week wanting to chat, see the tank, borrow books and ask for advice. So I am very pro this hobby, and although maybee harsh from time to time, I try and remain fair and open minded. I belive that falsely inflated prices are in no-ones best interest (cept for the stores). I am happy to pay a fair price, and am lucky enough that I think I do. Will I pay retail as we know it today? Nope, and I will do everything and anything I can to convice others to do the same. Pieman

Yellow Tang - $115 Sixline Wrasse - $40 Clownfish - $25 Chromas - Been given 3 never brought one? $20 or less Blue Tang - $50 Coral Bueaty - $60 Antheas - $40+ Of course size may change the cost? You would get no compaint from me at those prices. Pies

hehehe yeah clownfish AKA dumbassfish.

I agree with AW, a sea anemone is not important for the clownfish at all. Lots of people breed clowns without these pesky anemones in there tank. Interesting though, some anemones have a larger chance of success with clowns living in them, particualry H.Magnifica. Interesting. Pies

Acros easy - Aquaneedit and a rock. Most people think that horizontal 'planting' works better than vertical. Most stoney corals the same as above. Softies/Xenia - Use a super sharp razor blade (e.g. new, buy 10 from the $2 shop). I usually chop of 2 branches and use a cable tie to hole it to the rock through the Y branch. Mushrooms - Never 'fragged' one before, but I have real problems 1. getting them off the rock 2. getting them to stick to a rock. My soultion, no more mushrooms in my tank, moving them out. Nothing to exciting there. My biggest tips are use a very sharp blade and if possible do it all while keeping the coral underwater. I have fragged leather corals and had them continue to stay open whiles being choppen into 4 pieces. Happy fragging.

Don't forget to warm the water to 'reef' temprature before testing. Otherwise you params won't make a reasonable comparision. The bottom line is the water will be fine for the reef tank (proof in all the tanks using it). This 'issue' is all the stuff your not testing for 'petrol', 'onion', 'decaying bodies', 'urine', 'dead farm animals' etc. Sea water is sea water, give or take a few params it will be fine. Its the 'unknown' factor that makes it so exciting. Pie

Pegas Wrote: If by freshwater trade you mean the freshwater retail trade. Pegas: Retail prices are a 'rip off'. Now don't take that the 'wrong way'. The rip off bit is aimed at the buiness model, not at the nessessity of the store to charge what it needs to charge. Why does the retailer need to buy from the wholesaler? Why does the wholesaler refuse to sell to the end line customer. A classic case of one hand washing the other. The internet is distroying this 'old skool' business model, and the sooner the better. Sorry of you shop owners/wholesalers don't like it but its the way things are heading. The internet, 'hobby business' and direct marketing are all eating away at your profits. Want to avoid it? You can. Buy direct, sell direct - if you don't someone else will. Petplanet wrote: You have missed the point. I don't want to pay W/S+ 50% (although Layton may buy something from you). I want to pay 'wholesale' prices, full stop. I can't avoid that 12.5% to Helen as you put it, but sure ain't giving you 50% just for the pleasure of buying it. Pies

The 'wholesale' prices I know about seem fair to me. I am happy to pay them, and have done so for many many many thousands of dollars. Its that extra 100% + that goes to the shop on top of that is my only point of resistance. Freight is a cost to the buyer, handeling covered in the wholesale price. Pies

Easy fix for this. Don't bring in (or if your a shop buy) anything but the best items. Problem solved. Pie

All you need to grow weed is light and current, well I have heaps of it growing in my tank and thats all I have. Don't think I would add anything to grow seaweed. Pies

Alois - If you can't sell it all, put me down for 400 pieces My 1400 litre tank is calling.

LOL surprised the FBI havn't banned this thread now

OK here it is for the last time, in fear of being shot/banned/flamed/hastled/moved and generally loathed. For me the stores are an un-nessessary step. e.g. I want an Ehiem 1262 pump, all thats important to me is the price, I have made my purchase decision. Now why should I pay 100% more (margins float but this is about right) than wholesale for it? Why can't I go direct (I can, it just is a little more work for me, we when I say 'I' I mean we, if you know what I mean?). Same deal with stock. I want a yellow tang. Thats it, yellow tang please. Now $90 wholesale vs. $199 retail (last time I was in auckland thats how much they were). Thats the bit, for me, thats pisses me off. Now perhapps the 'casual purchases' is where the shops should win. Average Joe Punter wants a yellow tang, sees it, $200 pinga, done, everyone is happy, impulse buy (well everyone cept the yellow tang I suspect). I refuse to get into the shop having 'overheads', for me thats not important. I am willing to concede the fact that they charge what they charge because they have too. I don't like it, but hey its there business to do with what they like. But what about me? All I want is the stuff I want. I don't perceve any value from the store, just get me a fish/coral/additive/pump for the most reasonable price, and by that I mean wholesale (or maybee a little more cause I am buying less, and I can respect the logic behind looking after your bigger customers). Am I making sense? Piemania

Alois as I said to Layton earlier nick said this not Steve! Why are Nick/Steve getting so much 'static' about all this anyway? Why is it such a big concern? Truely, whats the problem? Pies

My new tank is 2200L x 730H x 950W and its all 12mm with a 22mm base. 12 looks fine to me. Brace it well. I am having my center brace made of steel rods as opposed to a glass 'strut'. For me its a case of heat issues (2000 watts of light) and light (glass gets dirty and block light, but my steel rod is smaller and less obtrusive. Good luck sounds like a nice big tank. Pies

This is completely untrue. I know someone here in NZ who built his own facility specifically to fill his 6 footer. He now has 2 six footers. He has brought in 3 shipments, all for himself. he did it for economic reasons, it was cheaper for him to do it himself. He put no value on his own time. Remeber you can just box of a corner of you garage or similar, if you have ever seen a facilty there is not much to it. Which makes sense. If it costs say $15-$20 per item, that would retail for $100-$120 then it doesn't take long to swing in your favor. Setting up a facility (espeically a small one) doesn't take much. If I had the time i'd love to do it myself. Just don't have the time. Pies

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/inde ... 29169&st=0 Just to show you can do a great small tank. Pies

I have comparied my Salifert to my redset and they are pretty close. I do notice that if I test the salifert test 2 or 3 times in a row the results are always the same, the redsea does have a little discrepency. My Hagen test kit however its not the best. It would be better to use a magic 8ball "is my calcium ok?" *shake* "maybee". hrmmmm.

Ya knights water would be UBER! Wish I was diving the knights this weekend

Do they offer anything at a cost effective rate Layton - As for Chrischurch water, although it is spring water and very good to drink (full of minerals and all sorts of goodness), isn't this bad for your tank? I mean saltmix is designed to be mixed with distilled water, so all those extra minerals and things your firing into the tank are bad? Pies

Just to completely contridict myself. - I mentioned this on an earlier post about SteveA's tank the other day. He changed from NSW to ASW and has told me he thinks that his tank improved since he made the change. As far as I am aware Steve is going to continue to use ASW and he has a large tank (1600 litre+). RnB used to use NSW and switched to ASW, and I think, is going to switch back to NSW. Interesting. My own experance is that I think my tank looks better after a NSW water change. I have tried/use ASW several time, when I wanted to water change and I didn't think I could get a source of good water (Wellington weather makes getting NSW more of a challenge than perhapps anywhere else in the country). I will continue to use NSW. Beginners. This is about the only reason I just on the NSW/ASW debate. Given the costs of water filteration (if you concede you need it). I suspect that throwing 300-500 dollars at water filteration equipment to just add water to a tank is prohibitive. I think that a beginner is better of (if possible) to use NSW than tap water/ASW. This is the advice I continue to give to people here in Wellington and on this board. Now there 'may' be risks, but no-one seems to have had any negitive stories to tell. Even Ira who collected NSW with onions floating in it seems to have survived OK. I think that there is no problem with ASW, cetainly a lot of great tanks that use it (reefcentral TOTM have only had 3 that I can think of on NSW), proof alone. However if you have a source of water, and you can be bothered collecting it, it should be seriously considered give my own, and many others experance. To continue with the risks, if I thought there was even the remotest possibility of it causes me problems I wouldn't use it. However I just don't see that there is. INTERESTING QUESTION - Anyone collect river water for there freshwater tanks? Pie

Layton - Prove to me its not? How about the fact that so many people are using it without problem? How do you know your ASW is not polluted? You said you use tap water? Doesn't that leave some room for issues? Maybee you should try and use NSW, as you said you have no experance with it. I however have used both, money is not an issue, whats best for the tank is. About 5-6 people here on southcoast NSW and going strong. Who knows, maybee your tank will respond well to the NSW and you will surprise youself. Still you will never know until you try. Pies

Both American and Eurpoean gagues will work just fine (I have both). Its the thread used to connect to the bottle thats the issues, and this can be solved with a feat of engeneering if needed. Good luck. Lots of cheap gagues on EBAY. Pies