Stella

Slowly getting the plan in place. Apparently Peter from Wet Pets has a guy lined up with a really good marine tank and is going to accost a few others and see if they are interested in showing their tanks. Apparently the Hawke’s Bay club is leaving at 8am. Allowing for travelling time, disorganised people, breaks, refuelling etc I propose meeting at my place at 12pm – how does that sound? I would like a person from each club as a main contact person for each contingent, I am presuming Foxglove from Kapi-Mana and Warren from Hawke’s Bay are organising their people? Let me know if someone else is more appropriate. So far, people showing their aquariums from here are: ryanjury, olly, bilbo, shadowfax. Olly is the only one (apart from me) that lives in Palmy, the others are in Bulls or on the way thereto. I am sending PMs to these people shortly gathering details, so if you would like to show your tank and somehow I missed you please let me know!

Try a plumbing supplies place :roll: Remember to go for something wide enough for the food to fall through with plenty of room. Then take a vivid and write "Clown Loach Feeding Station - No Cichlids Allowed" on the bottom and you should have the problem sorted

Get a wide-bore tube or similar a bit longer than the depth of the water. Insert tube, drop food down it, remove tube

It sounds weird, but I do agree to an extent about the shortjaws. They are the most threatened species I have, but I know how to look after them and Mike says there is nothing wrong with keeping them. He probably knows more about their population status than anyone. One might even argue that it is more ethical to keep shortjaws than other more common species who don't adjust to captivity with such ease. Then again I would not encourage just anyone to keep them. It is an ongoing mental debate in my head, constantly reevaluating, but I believe what I am doing is ok. I treat all my fish as valuable. No one individual life is more valuable to me simply because they are less common than another species. I have a responsibility to that life. With the 'captive bred whitebait'... Charles Mitchell in Raglan is trying to 'farm' whitebait. He has some evidence that suggests whitebait return to the rivers in which they were spawned. Others disagree. Certainly he is seeing more and more whitebait go to his farm each year. Search on his name, there are many interesting articles on what he is doing. I have visited him and he is a very interesting man. My giant and banded kokopu came from him. Not sure about Mahurangi, I have contact with them too. Interesting things happening there! A couple of months ago I helped them catch upland bullies for breeding stock for the aquarium trade. They are trying to get the law changed so they can legally farm native fish. Legally they can catch 'wild' whitebait, grow them up and sell them, and there is a loophole allowing the same for other fish, but they want to see them farmed and sold so the wild stocks are not affected. I would much rather have sustainably farmed fish any day and am fully in support of them. I know they have dealings with Charles Mitchell, so maybe he sends them kokopu whitebait for them to grow up for sale.

Again jumping to conclusions. I do not have a permit for mudfish and I am not presuming it to cover shortjaws. No one needs a permit to keep any native fish. Indeed it is. And that private home is open to those coming on the Forest and Bird trip this weekend. It is open to the FNZAS members coming next weekend. It is open to anyone who wants to sit through me telling them all about the wonders of native fish! And the common species are all right there in the book. With the appropriate stress that they are more ethical and easier to keep. . Are you still assuming that I am a member of the NZ Freshwater Fish Society? Or maybe now Forest and Bird? I am also on the local branch committee. We have a responsibility to educate, inspire and be actively involved in conservation. Those that know what I have been doing on the committee with regard to native fish would say I do all that. Suddenly native fish are in the local branches' conciousness thanks to my efforts. I don't say that lightly either. Almost all the fish came from the same 10 metre area of stream. The temperature issue has been sorted, as I said, current aquarium temperature is 16.5 degrees. Mere teething issue. And bear in mind that there is almost NO information out there on how to keep native fish. Only very short pieces of information that barely scratches the surface. I have had to work it all out for myself (as others have done individually) and I am now making that information available to the public. I have made mistakes, have you not? You are being condecending. You will notice that this forum is to help people and share knowledge, not put down their efforts with such vehemence, disdain and total lack of understanding or knowledge of what you are talking about.

Bear in mind that if I was a whitebaiter I could, with full endorsement of the law and policed by DOC, take hundreds of juvenile shortjaw, giant and banded kokopu (depending on location) from the wild, asphyxiate them slowly and then cook and eat them. There is no law preventing anyone from taking native fish from the wild, keeping them alive in aquaria, eating them, feeding them to the dog etc. There are many laws restricting taking them from certain places, putting them back, farming them etc. Not one native fish is legally 'protected' apart from the extinct grayling. The laws are pretty complex and currently under review. You will also see on this forum I am often pointing out what the legalities are regarding native fish as there is much confusion and the legal position needs to be understood by anyone interested in them. It took a lot of effort and help from DOC's legal department to get the guidelines correct for my book, I do know what I am talking about here. That is merely the law, ethics are a similar but different consideration. While legally I could keep Canterbury mudfish, ethically I wouldn't go near them. Same with taking banded kokopu from the Manawatu district, but I would from Auckland. Yes, I am writing a book on keeping native fish in captivity and it focuses very strongly on the ethics and conservation aspects. I have consulted with a number of different freshwater ecology scientists and others about which species are appropriate and the wider ethical issues. I have only included species they approved of. The book deliberately does *not* cover shortjaw or giant kokopu, non-diadromous galaxiids or several mudfish species (and actively says don't touch canterbury mudfish) due to conservation concerns. Shortjaw kokopu are no longer officially in the ‘threatened’ category. The site you quote is from 1994 and is very much out of date on several species. Their classification has ‘improved’ thanks to the work of Massey Uni freshwater ecologist Dr Mike Joy. He worked out what habitats they are in and found the population is actually much larger and healthier than previous data had shown. When I caught the shortjaws I thought they were a different species, the official description was quite different and now I see it relates to juveniles much bigger than mine. When I realised what they were I explained what had happened to Mike and asked if I should return them. He had no problem with me keeping them. (You will notice on another thread when I was leading a trip to see a few rare species someone argued against taking them. It is there in the archives that I said we were not due to conservation concerns and that I would not be comfortable with anyone taking them. I can't remember my exact words.) I usually only take juveniles of any species, it is less potentially damaging to the local population as well as juveniles adapt much easier. The shortjaws in question are several years off becoming sexually mature, so I was not removing breeding stock. As an update on the fish themselves, they settled in remarkably quickly and have put on a lot of size in the four months I have had them. I am not a member of the NZ Native Freshwater Fish Society, you are really leaping to conclusions here! It is in recess, has been for a number of years. The ex-president is trying to get me to re-start it but I sadly don’t have the time. It was not a National Park. It was from private farm land bordering a pine forest/recreational area. The landowner was in the process of bulldozing a new track, pushing a lot of soil into the stream. That sort of prolonged turbidity and general habitat destruction is incredibly damaging to the entire stream ecosystem and was very sad to see and seems to frequently happen in this area. It was also full of trout, which predate on native fish and compete with them for food. The population is healthy but the habitat is being badly treated. I do not think it is a fair comparison relating me taking three fish from the wild for my own aquarium to buying animals illegally from dealers. Participating in illegal trading is a totally different issue. The permit to return fish to where they originally came from is obtainable from the Ministry of Fisheries. The reason for this law was the accidental introduction of whirling disease which affects the introduced salmonids. The disease risk towards or from native fish is remote, but the law covers all species. I am not just a private person having them only for my private entertainment. I am also trying to ‘spread the word’ that they exist and make people more aware of the issues surrounding them. This weekend I am taking a trip for the local Forest and Bird Society spotlighting in a stream, them visiting my tanks after. Two FNZAS clubs are visiting me the weekend after that. I have also done a public live display and other educational field trips. This is just the start. I hope to turn this into a career somehow. Being able to see live examples is so much more accessible for most people. For too long they have been out of sight out of mind. I am fully transparent. You will see in my online gallery (linked in the sig below) my full name, photograph, location and all the authorities need to be able to find and question me should they suspect anything unlawful or otherwise dodgy going on. It isn’t. Amateurish? Are you just trying to be offensive now? Firstly, I am not a professional fishkeeper, therefore technically it is amateurish. Secondly I have had people tell me that my tanks look far better than any native tanks you pay to visit that they have seen (which covers most of them). Massey university has asked me to try breeding brown mudfish (category B on your site, and which was approved for inclusion in the book by the top mudfish experts) in aquaria for them and they are paying for the costs. I bought an air conditioning system purely for the fish last summer. Amateur? Technically. Poor quality? Little understanding or attention to the fishes' requirements? Definitely not. Current riffle tank temperature: 16.5 degrees. I can assure you that I don’t take fish indiscriminately from the wild. A hell of a lot of thought, *particularly* on the ethical side of things, has gone into my involvement with native freshwater fish, and continues to do so. I am highly offended by your tirade but obviously you prefer to leap to fairly extreme conclusions than to find out what you are talking about. I have no expectation that I will change you mind, nor should you have any hope that you will change mine.

Of course, Deno! The more the merrier Firefish, it was lovely to meet you too Thanks for the plug. The mudfish were out and really active last night, such cool fish, shame they were all hidden when you were here. And I think the kokopu have grown another 3cm in girth :roll: Any more local people wanting to come? I will come up with an itinerary next week. Due to lack of people to press-gang into showing their tanks there won't be many, but I am sure the trip will be worth it! :bounce:

hugs

Well done!!!

Ah but the point is to AVOID those issues that prohibition cause! Otherwise I would have said just ban it outright. If you want to smoke, you can smoke, but you have to go through the hassle of having to register and getting your prescription cigarettes.

Smokers want the right to choose to smoke, right? They would also (normally) not encourage anyone else to take it up, right? I think smokers should need to register as smokers to be able to access cigarettes to a fixed personal amount. That way new people can't take it up (or if they do they are even stupider, but maybe there could be ways to include them on the register) and the smokers slowly die out and we are left with a smoke-free society without anyone being forced to stop. Makes sense to me. I would like to know what smokers think of it. And yes I realise it would possibly increase the stigma....

Not only are you allowed to have them, landlords are NOT allowed to refuse a tenant based on them having children! Age discrimination. :roll: If I had a property rented out there would be no way in hell I would rent it to a family with kids.

I wish I could be there! I would love to be able to help properly with this. My kokopu tank

Yes it is legal to keep them. It is also legal to kill and eat them.... A very interesting article has just been printed in the NZ Herald about this and the SERIOUS situation our eels are in. Mike Joy is a pretty major name in the freshwater ecology feild, and Amber is one of his postgrad students. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/stor ... d=10519200

Not completely sure how I will publish, but probably self-publishing. I will probably be so excited everyone will get a signed copy

I set a trap that was a converted office wastepaper basket. It caught an eel about 50cm long, three banded kokopu measuring 25, 25 and 20cm long each (all guestimates). And two crayfish claws..... I have reason to suspect there was a crayfish between them at one point... but nothing else remained.... Native eels are usually rather sluggish and inclined to sit there and do nothing for hours on end. I know they are huge fans of shellfish meat, but I don't have much experience with feeding eels. Don't bother with a heater. Like all our native fish they are truly COLD water fish, preferably under 18 degrees. (I hate cleaning my tanks in winter!) Not much of a lower limit, but preferably not actually frozen solid. Probably not a lot you could keep with him safely. They are pretty much the top of the food chain. Actually I am now quite intrigued as to *how* an eel would eat a crayfish, which is really a tank armed to the teeth... Do they attack from behind? Break off the nippers first?

Thanks so much guys! :-) I was so bouncing off the walls that night! I heard from him again today and will print it out (73 pages!) and post it off tomorrow. I did some more on it today, I have been spending all my lunch times writing it. It is really just random editing and tidying the language, all the info is there. Such a good feeling! Simian, do you mean Charles Mitchell? I am sure he would be a great help, good to have someone like him onsite! Wilson, yes you are still on the list (I have a list of people who want to be emailed when the book comes out. Of course the forum will be told in great detail as it happens, but it you would like to be added to the list please pm me with your email address)

Pretty good actually! The bullies are actually not doing too well, but it was never really meant to be a bully tank. Just too much current for them. The torrentfish look awesome though. the current is just right for them! I spend a lot of time watching this tank. Downsides: While I got the height just right for watching from my computer chair, the wideness of the tank front-to-back means it is slightly awkward for cleaning (just need to stip being lazy and take all the lids off). Brown and black algae has gone nuts (to be expected), actually the black algae looks kinda cool, the patterns the movement of the water makes, like a living sculpture. But not really the look I was going for (riffles in healthy streams are scrubbed clean of algae by the mobile gravel). Oh, the leak in the filter sorted itself

OK, in response to the 'not exciting' thread in the off topic forum...... I am bouncing off the walls and just HAVE to tell you all.... Ok so I am writing a book on keeping native fish. It is getting very close to being as finished as I can make it. So last night I finally got the guts to contact THE GURU on native fish BOB MCDOWALL who wrote The Books on native fish (from a scientific point of view). He is seriously top of the food chain as far as I am concerned. Anyway I wanted him to read over it and comment on the text. I just heard back from him. HE WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: 8)

:oops: um yeah, "foot foot" is "four foot" with 1/4 of the letters wrong.... Hey, I am pleased to announce that my book on keeping native fish in aquaria has just passed the 40,000 word mark!!!! :bounce:

Thanks I do love the aquascaping side of fish keeping. I am trying to aim for it looking like a segment of stream. The kokopu one is trying to look like part of a deep pool in a well-forested stream. The riffle tank is a gravelly braided river (and in need of a clean, the rocks should be grey not brown!). The mudfish tank needs a little more work. I want to get some sticks and leaves in there, and get it a little more random with the wood.

Kokopu Tank Four foot tank with 4 giant, 3 shortjaw and one banded Some of the kokopu, finally mostly sitting still for the camera! Riffle Tank foot foot with 7000lph flow, mainly for torrentfish and bluegills (and eventually koaro), also got several bully species atm. Wetland tank Three foot tank with peat substrate and wood, the mudfish are hiding...

I found those in my tanks. Apparently they are normally the ferrissia species and are commonly found in aquariums having arrived there on plants. They don't get any bigger than what you saw and are not a nuisance. Most people wouldn't know they had them.

Now there is an interesting thought.....! The truth is virtually no one here has seen them! I could name about five people on the forum that have actually seen them (two of which are close friends and have had significant input into the tanks). None of these people have publicly raved about them on the forum. So it seems this 'fame' has stemmed entirely from me rabbiting on and on for the past few years about keeping these bloody native fish! :oops: :roll: There does seem to be a growing interest in native fish here. My friends are inclined to lay the blame entirely at my feet, but I can see that others have been doing it earlier, or are joining the forum and immediately asking about native critters. Whatever is driving this, it is very cool to see. On one hand it adds a new element to fishkeeping, on the other more important level, these fish have been out of sight out of mind for too long and the more people are aware of them, the more people will understand and be concerned about what is happening to their habitats. Anyway, I am very proud of how my tanks are looking, and am really excited about getting to show them to you guys Olly, your tanks will compare in the sense of being totally different and I very much look forward to seeing them It seems everyone is worried about their tanks not being 'good enough', personally I just want to see other people's tanks! They don't have to be 'perfect', just.... someone else's! It is always a great chance to learn no matter what is on display. Supasi, shame you can't come along, but the offer still stands for you to come over any time and visit!

My famous mudfish....? You mean the remaining two as I accidentally killed three.... and they technically belong to Massey University? (I still feel bad about that.....) Well technically I have three, just one is in a jar and lying very still... That aside, it is doing my ego wonders that people want to come and see what I am doing Yes there is a good pet shop here, Wet Pets, not as spectacular as some, but pretty impressive I think. Pete from Wet Pets is coming along as well, which should be really interesting, he can be quite a font of knowledge.