Stella

ok, so I go on about them a lot....: NATIVES!!! Love 'em! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: 8) Stella (check out the pics in the link below)

keep 3lt juice bottles in the freezer. About five or as many as you can fit (thankfully i don't use the freezer for much else!) At the worst of summer this provides a continual supply on rotation. Put one in the tank when you get up, before you go to work, when you get home and before you go to bed. It annoyingly takes so much longer to freeze 3lts of water than you think... And I find thermometers to be notoriously unreliable My chiller is keeping the tank all of three degrees below room temp at the moment. It is going constantly and stressing me out. I need it COLDER!!! And need many more bottles for ice than my present two... Stella

Hi Smidey, It is a lot of guesswork, there is very little out there specifically on keeping them in aquaria. I quickly realised I knew more about them than most people I had to ask... THere are a few really interesting books on them, more the biology side, and a lot of scientific abstracts on the net, from which you can pull stuff to apply to the native tank. I am in the process of writing a guide to keeping them, not because I am an expert, but because there is nothing else out there. I know enough and an obsessive researcher 8) There is an interesting overview of the species here: http://www.nzfreshwater.org/index_main.html Stella

HI Becc4! I was going to private message you, see how the plans for natives was going. Shame you have had to change your mind on them, but convienient not having those heaters sucking up your power now! Even with a chiller it can get worrisome as the days warm up. Stella

I have a four foot native freshwater tank. They are very sensitive to it heating up over summer as they mostly live in shaded streams and rivers. it can get incredibly hot over summer! Has been cruddy weather here and the tank is 22 degrees). I have a chiller after losing half my fish by going away for the weekend last summer, came home and the tank was 29 degrees! Stella

I love long flowing algae! I *encourage* mine. Grows all up the back of the tank on the glass and waves beautifully in the current. Grows a few lawns of it on rocks under the lights. Algae is a plant afterall, and ncie green stuff like this is copeting with nasty blue/green and brown algae for nutrients. Though algae is pretty much the only plant I can grow in my tank, doing the native freshwater thing, so no algae-eaters to clean up mucky algae off plants so they turn icky and die. There is an example of it here, before it got really lush: http://tinyurl.com/y9z6e4 It has since died after moving the tank, but slowly coming away again. Stella

you did say you wanted a more natural look! It may leech for a while then slow down. Depending on the type of fish you have, it can definitely make it look more natural. THe wood in mine gives a slightly yellow tinge to the water, which works well with the stream habitat I am going for. If the LFS sold it, it should be fine. Tis just tea! Stella

Thanks Regarding handfuls per bucket, I am kinda after something more precise, or at least to sound like I know what I am tlaking about, I want the info for something I am writing as well as personal use. 8) Admittedly the last qucik dip treatment I did involved several 'pours' of salt from the bag into a small jug of water.... hardly precise. It seemed to help. (anyone else seem the measuring spoon sets that are labeled 'dash', 'pinch' 'smidgin' etc? I'd love to get some. They sum up my attitude to most measuring... which possibly explains why I am not so good at cooking...) Stella

This is something that has bugged me for a while and I would like to have a roughly definitive answer at the ready just in case. I want to know how much salt to use, in tea/tablespoons per litre to treat sick fish, both as a short shorp dip (30sec to a minute) and for a longer treatment. Also what is a good low level to have in the water when fish are at risk of disease (eg just removed a sick fish, water conditions got out of hand etc) Most stuff on the internet is in gallons, grams (I so don't have that sort of scale!) or US/UK versions of tsp/tbsp (even the australian tsp/tbsp measures are quite different to ours. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Stella

Mmm, crans might work, not that I have really seen one before. There are others with red dorsal stripes. Mine are uplands, supposed to have red stripes, but have green! I dont get it... but they were ID'ed by an expert in freshwater natives. Personally i have only ever seen one species of bully in any given section of stream, Im sure the territories overlap at times though. 22 is still rather warm, higher than 18 degrees begins to get stressful. Not warm enough to start freaking. Start that at 24 degrees at the latest. Now try leaving your house closed up for the weekend in the middle of February. The temps a tank can shoot up to! Start making ice. BTW Freshwater bullies all have two dorsal fins, cockabullies have three and are marine. Freshwater bullies are often called cockabullies, but aren't.... just to be picky These books are excellent for identifying native fish: http://reed.co.nz/searchresults.cfm The cheaper one is page-a-fish and has a photo of each one. Good basic stuff at a good price. The second is an enlargement of that, about five pages per fish, including drawings and maps. I want to upgrade to that one soon. There is nothing out there on keeping them in aquaria, so I am writing it 8) Stella

I missed the initial part of your questions: LEGALITY. YES it is legal. PROVIDED YOU DO NOT: sell them take from reserves etc move them to a different waterway to where they came from move them between islands Take crayfish from lake taupo and surrounding waterways (iwi property) take juvenile galaxids (whitebait) outside of season *That is a rough guide* and it took months of pestering various experts to find it out. Pay attention to the one about moving to a different waterway. Even if the same species is there, you can stuff up local genetics. DoC does care about all of the above and will come down heavily, even without that, it is about caring for the environment on a number of levels. If you want to release them in the future, please take them back precisely to whence they came. (a small pond is ok, if isolated from other waterways.) Stella

Nice fish! Looks like a good size. I don't know what it is... might help to see a pic when it is in the water and settled. The patterning on the cheeks is distinctive. 6 crays is a lot.... I would expect a bit of cannibalism if they are all together. Particularly if closely stocked or there is a bit of size variation. *Both* species really like caves and nooks. You will soon become an expert making rockeries and complexes! The more caves, the happier the crays, the less aggression towards other crays or fish. As with anything, the more secure they feel, the more natural behaviour you will get. Crays are vegetarian mostly, though will eat anything they can get their hands on. Keep a pot of frozen vegies for ease of feeding. They utterly adore peas. Don't worry about cooking or defrosting things. You will quickly find out what they like. They will also munch leftovers from the fish (and fish... if slow), and a nice treat is a worm (though very not nice for the worm...). Bullies are insectivorous, eating most aquatic insects, including snails (crays also eat snails, good source of calcium). I feed frozen bloodworm to my fish as their staple diet, but live food is greatly appreciated. As for temperature, this will be a battle. The bigger the tank the better - less fluctuation. Seriously, over summer, dedicate one drawer of the freezer to 3lt juice bottles for ice, do a rotation and keep a very close eye on the temp. Even if you find you are not using the ice much, keep more than you think you need. Disasters happen. The link earlier on this thread has a good section on temp. I came home from a weekend away last summer. Had left the light off (hot little buggers!) and the curtains drawn to keep out the sun. The day was the hottest on record (in palmerston north!) and the tank was 29 degrees at 11pm when I got home! All my koaro were dead! Got a chiller after that. Put a low level of salt in the tank as a light preventative. Bullies are really suceptible to whitespot/ich while acclimatising. Sitting on the ground makes them more prone. Crays will not get ich, but will be killed by ich treatments. If you get ich, let me know, there are a few tricks with these coldwater fish the pet shop and books didn't tell me :evil: As I said, I love these fish, will talk about them for pages! :bounce:

I have native fish, am completely obsessed about them! Had just natives for somewhat over a year now. Bullies make wonderful pets. They are really curious and can become suprisingly tame with no effort on your part if they are bored (like in quarantine). There are also quite a few varieties easily found in most areas. The MAJOR problem with native tanks is temperature. They need it cold, and over summer this can become a huge hassle. Bullies and inanga (the most common whitebait) are more tolerant, but other fish really need a chiller. Do keep a really close eye on the temp (and have a reliable thermometer or two) and keep 3ltr juice containers in the freezer for ice. I have a 220 litre tank with inanga and an upland bully. I also have a common bully and another upland in quarantine after capture. I used to have more uplands and a cray, until recently when they cray ate the bullies then hopped out of the tank for a spot of dessication.... Crays make excellent pets, though are an issue when they get bigger than their tankmates. Check out my tank here: http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/hecaba/ If you have any questions at all, please ask! I love talking about these fish

How long did it take for them to get that big? The name 'giant' is putting me off a little! I have found all natives like to hide in caves, even the inanga. And vital for bullies, they like the territories it creates as well as places to hide from each other. What area of the tank to the prefer? (like how bandeds patrol the top, inanga school in the middle and koaro hang about the bottom, resting or swiming like sharks) Thanks

Hi David! I am potentially getting some giant kokopu whitebait off someone. COuld you tell me a bit of what they are like? I love natives. Tis becoming bit of an obsession. Have one tank, 220 litre, with 3 adult inanga, 6 small (this year's) inanga, one good sized cray and three bullies. Used to have koaro, would love to have some of them again. Am going whitebaiting the last weekend of the season, see if I can get me some bandeds!! Stella

Woo hoo! It seems more people are catching on to hte idea of native fish! We have a cray with our natives (bullies ad inanga). He would take the occasional nip, but nothing bad. They learn to keep out of his way. Crays are largely vegetarian but will eat anything that comes their way. They are built like tanks, but it is all about defence not aggression. If one appears aggressive it is probably scared silly! I dont give mine flake. IT isnt well recieved, and esily turns into tiny bits the fish cant be bothered eating. Frozen bloodworm are very convienient and loved by everyone. It seems whitebait can inhale pretty large food. Mine will eat blood- and white-worms. Feel free to private message me if you want! I am kinda obsessive about natives at the moment Stella

YEah I have been keeping a close eye on the temp and it is well within the acceptable range for galaxiids. The inanga (which i think these guys are) are much more tolerant of lower levels of dissolved oxygen than the other whitebait species. We have a chiller for the main tank but it is still many degrees below where that needs to come on. Inanga are normally one-year species, but can live for a couple of years if they dont spawn, theough they are finding some survive spawning. The other species can live much longer, even taking a good few years to become sexually mature. Next time we get some (we really want some koaro and kokopu) we will have some daphnia ready, I think the babies would be tiny enough for the whitebait to eat. Stella

We went whitebaiting a couple of weeks ago so we could grow them up for our native tank. Unfortunately we have lost about 1/2 of them! We had them in a big largely bare tank with lots of aeration. Fed them whiteworms which they caught on to pretty fast. However I think they were a bit big for the 'real' whitebait (there were some bigger more mature ones as well) and all the real whitebait died pretty quick But there have been sporadic older whitebait deaths too. I am trying to keep the water quality good, especially given the deaths, and get the corpses out smartly then do a water change. Has anyone else tried raising whitebait? The other thing that interests me is what happens to a whitebait that DOESNT find a freshwater stream, and gets permanently lost at sea? They have physiological changes that happen when they reach freshwater, presumably this doesnt happen if they stay in salt water. But do they wind up maturing or simply expire past a certain age as whitebait? Thanks heaps for any ideas. Stella (210 litre tank: 3 inanga, 4 bullies, 1 cray, uncountable whitebait and another tank with 3 tiny newts)

we keep native fish. They are so addictive! it is amazing learning about this whole native ecosystem I was completely unaware of, and going out to catch or simply spotlight them at night is fun. We have inanga, bullies, a cray, used to have koaro, and today went whitebaiting for the first time and got a whole lot of probable-inanga. We will release most of them once we can tell what they are, keeping what we want. (we caught a whole lot more than we wanted and secretly released them upstream of the whitebaiters!) Stella

I am utterly determined not to get MTS. Firstly cost, secondly placement, and thirdly, if I can get this one bloody tank right I dont want to wind up with heaps of half-working tanks! Do you ever get your tank to where you are happy with it and keep it that way, without an outbreak of something less than picturesque??? I hate blue green algae, ich, brown algae and stupid fish that like my hiding areas too much and have reverted to being noctunal.... Stella

Definitely night with a torch is the way to find them. I wouldnt use my hands though.... they have nippers and know how to use them! And too damned fast to attempt a safe hold.... though obviously it has worked for others... Use their reverse escape mechanism to your advantage: put a net behind them, then scare them with a stick from the front and they will run straight into it! THey will be very aggressive at first, mostly because they are scared. They look like a mini tank but it is all about protection. There will be a lot of arm waving and other displays. Having many dark rocky caves will help a lot in making a cray feel more secure. That is the most crucial part of cray keeping. Dont bother with plants, they will all wind up floating within days... Food needs to sink. They are escape artists. They like it cold. They will regrow legs and antennae It is not a dead cray, it shed it's skin! Welcome to the wonderful world of keeping native fish! Stella

How do i get rid of scunge (like a thin grey oil slick) off the surface of the tank? We have just set it up, and I think it is mostly from not rigorously cleaning the river gravel beforehand.... Thanks Stella

I just wrote this as a reply for a question in the beginners section, but it is applicable here too: I saw in the warehouse in the electrical section they have these short (30cm) fluorescent lamps for something like $4-7 each. They have a plug and cable going in one end and a clear plastic sheath over the light, then a cap and hook on the other end. I think they are designed as easily movable work lights. Anyway, I thought they could very easily and cheaply make good small tank lights. Just make a little cover to stop glare and direct light downwards. They are not the brightest, but probably ideal for what you want. The plastic sheath convieniently makes them splashproof. Stella

I saw in the warehouse in the electrical section they have these short (30cm) fluorescent lamps for something like $4-7 each. They have a plug and cable going in one end and a clear plastic sheath over the light, then a cap and hook on the other end. I think they are designed as easily movable work lights. Anyway, I thought they could very easily and cheaply make good small tank lights. Just make a little cover to stop glare and direct light downwards. They are not the brightest, but probably ideal for what you want. The plastic sheath convieniently makes them splashproof. Stella

I used to use the freezer method (it was what the books recommended!) but with a little thinking and reading I now think it is totally wrong. Last few times I slipped the fish into a produce bag and whacked it as hard as I could into the concrete. A few more whacks just to ease any fears, but it would be dead first go really. Bag makes for easier disposal without seeing what a mess you created. I am not keen on killing things (hell, I feel guilty if I step on a snail), but I can handle this. It is very very quick. Stella (native fish)