Wayne

how is it's faeces like? any mucousy threads/casts? they can b prone to hexamita infections....which causes a mild enteritis and poor growth/ill thrift..is he growing well? what do u feed them mate? any live aquatic feeds?? it's kind of a dodgy situation now...u have so many new fish in a new environment...God knows what diseases they r harbouring....specifically TB etc Perhaps u should just simply go for the ' cure-all' procedure......water changes n a bit of salt. say 20% every alternate day for a week, and one tablespoon of rock salt per 10L of water........this is safe for your species...kinda like a tonic for your new arrivals...

thanks John intersting article. the beginning was really detailed n complicated( i skipped most of it ). but it failed to mention an important clinical sign---or more commonly a post-mortem feature---brown-blood disease is another term for nitrite poisoning....basically the blood turns brown because the red blood cells have been altered--methaemoglobinaemia. so if u picked a fish and examined it's gills, and instead of a bright bloody red colour, u see darkish brown---it's almost diagnostic for nitrite poisoning. fish struggling to breathe, dying, having brown gills etc is the extreme of course. it has been shown that mild to moderate chronic elevations of nitrite in the water actually reduces WBC count( white clood cell counts) etc, lowering the immunity of the fish n predisposing them to diseases.. and sometime u do get these lowish readings in an 'established aquarium'. often after a major water change, or a good cleaning of the filter( any event that disrupts the good bacteria). a high pH plays a role too in some instances.... Anyway, don't forget salt too. a 0.1-0.3% salt solution helps fish cope with nitrites, by inhibiting gill uptake of this poison. Again, a critical management aid not mentioned....

Congrats mate! how big is your clownknife? they can b pretty shy at first. had one a while ago which didn't survive too long. i couldn't convert it into taking pellets.

yeah...red devils are cool....but they r bloody aggressive..i've had one that wiped out 2 oscars bigger than itself! But, having said that, just make sure u've got enought room bro...mind u they were in quarantine... have you considered a knife fish?

Totally understand Ira... my 404 brokedown a mth ago....just stopped suddenly...good thing i was there at the time thought the power was out, checked all the plugs, circuit boards etc...but localised the problem to the filter itself...everthing else worked when plugged in....the heaters in the tank were still going.... yes, i hate that black bit of plastic....It was acutally totally detached from the white propellers( mine must have cracked somewhere... u can take it out). kinda u shaped.. whenever i turn it the unit on, it would BUZZ LOUDLY......krrrchuncking noise....n the flow would trickle or b absent...tried shaking etc....doesn't work, n then silence....it just stopped( this never happened before)....found that the propeller/magnet unit actually lifts away from the power unit itself( it kinda floats on that cermaic brown stick whatever u call it, even with the clip-on lid still on ! anyway, after a few minutes of playing around, i managed to tie a big fat knot( using fine fishing nylon) on the shaft( brown ceramic stick), with the propellor-magnet unit plus that black piece properly in place...the knot was tied between the top of the propellor and the bottom of the clip-on lid....basically, i gave it enough throws to fill most of the gap between the top of the propellor n the bottom of the clip-on lid..... and i surprised myself....it ran so so smoothly thereafter....it used to have this chronic problem of krrrchuncking whenever u took it apart for a clean.....usually wears itself away after a while or a few shakings...now, it runs smoothly after every wash. oh, n Merry Christmas to all enough said about boring filters....

Hi Andi. how did u come to this conclusion? i presume they showed some form of physical signs... how big is the tank? how many fish did u start off with? how big were they approximately.....how much were u feeding? did u try seeding the tank with good bugs to start with? anyway, from your history....recent tank setup.....sudden epidemic.....n it sounds like u had quite a bit of fish in a xxxsized tank, it all points to water quality problems...esp ammonia/ nitrite. classical new tank syndrome.....might have been complicated by an infectious skin organism... another possible explaination for the clown loaches death----some diseases produce no clinical signs at all...e.g icthyobodo / costia. have u added any medication etc since then?? it might have buggered the filter n account partly for the cloudiness.... clown loaches r extra sensitive to certain drugs too........could u have poisoned it? also, how much did the pH change?? sudden large changes can cause an acute stress syndrome n lead to sudden death. cloudy water or not, it's of secondary importance to ammonia n nitrites. u should focus on 1) testing for these parameters 2) supporting your filter( keep up with the bacterial agent n perhaps some zeolite) 3) doing water changes + salt( up to 50% water changes, once every day or 2....a tablespoon full of salt per 10 L is safe for most fish) 4) reducing feed for the next week will reduce ammonia production. avoid overfeeding.... If your tapwater is from the local council....there shouldn't b any problems.......just ensure u remove the chlorine with chemicals, and keep the temp. constant during water changes.... hope things start to clear up....n survive through the new yr

hmm lots of confusion n misinformation here guys..... Caryl said: i agree Caryl....probably not camallanus. these r quite characteristic. tetras n livebearers mayb more susceptible to it, but new spp r always emerging. peety said: well, the main differentials( possible causes) for thready/mucoid cast-like faeces( or diarrhoea!) in fish = hexamita, worms and TB. flukes and cestodes(tapeworms) are also 'worms' if u like, but they tend to b rare in fish reared in aquariums. these worms have complex life-cycles requiring birds, predatory fish, isopods etc to thrive. u'll need a pond or wild enviro for them to persist. however, we occasionally see the larval forms of these worms in fish....caught from the wild etc......heard of eyefluke, grubbs etc? nematodes or roundworms r different. these include camallanus n capillaria. the adult worms can thrive in the intestine/rectum of the fish n produce diarrhoea. hexamita is a protozoa n yes, it might b the cause. some cases of TB can produce a chronic diarrhoea plus illthrift etc....but heavy worm burdens can give the same picture. Drontal contains praziquantal. this drug kills cestodes n trematodes(flukes)....in fish...2 potential problems---1)dissolving the product...i havn't tried it, but u'll have to dissolve the tablet/powder before it does anything. lots of factors will affect the absorption of the drug into the fish....drontal tablets r probably not as suitable as say commercial anti-tapeworm drenches used in sheep/horse......these have praziquantel in LIQUID form, and will probably b better absorbed by fish. 2) so what if u kill the tapeworms n flukes?? the fish probably has roundworms instead....praziquantel is useless against these. however, drontal also contains pyrantel and febantel.....these should b effective against roundworms....no guarantee though, very little work has been done on the drugs against fish roundworms. and remember, any drug is a potential poison. catfish can b more sensitive to certain drugs. your best bet Ira is to improve environmental conditions. siphon poo/organic debri.....do water changes....and feed a nutritious diet. If it continues to detoriate, or loose body condition etc, then consider medication. i would pick 1) tetramisole. most petshops with birds will stock this....a dewormer for birds--blue solution...it is in liquid form, has its concentration clearly labelled. levamisole/tetramisole is possibly the most effective drug against roundworms in fish. 1-2 mg per L for 24 hours in a hospital tank is generally recommended. 2) if it still doesn't improve, i would switch to metronidazole/flagyl...this is an antibiotic used by GPs n vets against anerobic bacteria n protozoan infections.....u'll have to get a prescription though... it's for hexamita infections. 3) TB??? it's best to cull the fish. antibiotics against fish TB should b reserved for human use.... obviously, the "right" way to go about this case would b to collect a faecal sample for analysis.....capillarial eggs r highly characteristic. a high egg count and respond to treatment confirms the diagnosis. 'excessive' hexamita organisms in the faeces will change our treatment plan, n we'll use flagyl first instead of tetramisole........sampling from other tankmates is a good idea too

Probably not Kellz....unless he gets a skin/gill infection down the road...u might stress him more with a dip well, the fact that he's still eating = GOOD! hope he gets better

Hi Kellz, If it's in obvious distress, and not eating, n not swimming much....euthanasia is an option.... alternatively, if u reckon he's got a chance, u can 1) add some salt. 2 tablespoons per 10L of water. mainly to prevent osmoregulatory failure... 2) chuck in some melafix....it's a bit xxx, but some anecdotal evidence n a ' mini' study by Eric Jonhson from koivet that it might work, improving healing rates etc.....( do a partial water change before u add it). obviously, u've got to modify his enviro in the longterm to avoid such events again. hope he gets better! the next 24 hrs r critical...if he makes it, n appears OK, he'll probably recover.

Hi Richard, Don't forget one of the golden rules----change = stress guess that's what most of us r trying to attain in fishkeeping. any change in any water parameter is a potential stress to the fish. how large n fast the change is dictates the amount of stress etc etc..... so whatever u do, water changes should b done 'gently' if u like....such that changes r minimised. new water added should b at the same temp. as the tank water... what else to say? Never follow the labelled instructions...u'll probably overdose them how're they going by the way?

no apologises necessary macka! we're all here to learn i had my doubts about salt's ability to change the pH. Even rock salt n solar salt have a bit of other minerals in them,......but apparently, it's not too significant with regards to pH. actually, it's the scaless fish and esp some catfish spp that r sensitive to salt. Lots of arowana owners in Asia rely heavily on salt as the main preventative strategy. they r as tolerant of salt as most other freshwater spp. no evidence yet to suggest that salt contributes to gill curl in arowanas. keep us updated Richard. hope things get better

on second thought, if u want to b precise, the standard dose using 100% formalin( 37-40% formaldehyde) for tx ich = 0.025 ml per L! a very tiny dose. so if u have a bottle of 50% formalin, and a 100L tank, u'll need 0.025ml x 100 = 2.5ml. but since this is only 50%, u'll need twice the vol = 5ml. repeat this every 48 hrs for 3 times.....do a 40% water change BEFORE adding the drug each time......at this dose, it's unlikely for them to have an adverse effect.....but do monitor for signs of gasping, rapid breathing..and excitation. might b wise to increase oxygen levels during the entire tx period. relying on the manufacturers dosage is risky n often inappropriately low or high......stick with the above n u'll b alright

My 2 oscars have paired off n r starting to dig around---nesting i presume. they r virtually with each other all the time. i've isolated them with an arowana and a pleco...away from the other small nibblers etc....any advice / tips ?? oh yes, i've added an inverted bowl for them to lay....anything to anticipate?? i've never bred these fish before. Cheers!

i'm with ya midas.. salt shouldn't alter the ph..... salt at 0.1% is known to inhibit the survivability of the 'juvenile' stages of the bug....theronts/tomites etc. BUT, from the sound of it, the lesions r pretty widespread, and the fish r itching quite badly???? salt might not b 'strong' enough.... anyway, u should 1) perform a water change--say 40% or so....mainly to correct any predisposing factors....and to dilute the bugs to reduce infection in tankmates. 2) add salt---1-2 tablespoons per 10L of water.. mainly to prevent osmoregulatory failure--this is why most fish die of ich....when the white spots 'burst' n water seeps into body via the skin. salt will counter this. 3) i strongly suggest u use formalin. available at most LFS...avoid anti-ich stuff as some contain MB--methylene blue, which does more harm than good....malachite green is excellent for severe cases, in combination with formalin... follow the dosage instructions with formalin...remember to do your water changes...generally speaking, u have to repeat the treatment every 48hrs for 3 times minimum. this is one of the rare cases where it's recommended that u directly add the medication into the tank...most other diseases involve baths, dips etc....u can't do that for ich. hope u contain this outbreak bro if possible, isolate valuable fish, or remove the loaches...

hey! i saw that large silver bout couple of mths before it passed.....It was very crook with 90% of its skin flaking from excess mucus....sure it was the one at fins n fangs n not wet pets........well, i thought it died from that.

not perfect Kellz. The freezing process, esp thawing is known to destroy various vitamins esp, n other nutritional stuff......to a lesser extend. u also get a drip loss during the thawing process. But more importantly is whether the stuff is balanced or not...i don't think most frozen commercial stuff r in NZ......just a home-made blend of various ingredients. contrast this to your standard quality flake, with claims to have passed various experimental feeding trials...these have more credibility. but, i suppose frozen tucker is more nutritious than plan old simple frozen beefheart due to the variety of ingredients in it. so they can b a treat n b nutritionally good for your fish...just don't rely 100% on them.......generally, 75% of tropical fish diets should b met via quality commercial flakes/pellets. hope this makes sense.

WOW! didn't know that......is it due to commercial reasons? i'll have to read up bout this at the MAF site.... thanks for your input Andrew...u have a mighty wealth of information ermm, anyone know any good eel catching spots?? i'm still keen on getting one...alive..

hmmmm. the only whitebaits i've seen r at pak n save..... but i can imagine a tank full of them would b pretty cool 8) Yeah! trout pond rock! dunno about the barracuda though reminds me of Rainbow Springs at Rotorua....imagine a pond surrounded by native ferns......wow......and perhaps a native eel lurking about........ahhhh

hey, anyone keeping any native species? i suppose some of them would b protected n hence illegal?? thinking of getting an eel...like the one at wet pets....ooooo! that's so cool. any good eel fishing spots in the nth isl? cheers

Yeah, definitely a BIG no no.. Epsom salts is mainly magnesium sulphate, and it's the magnesium that is toxic.....mainly to the nervous system and the heart. it's previously been used as a laxative at a low dose...there r better stuff nowadays to treat rare cases of constipation/impaction.... it also has sedative effects as it 'numbs' the nerve-muscle junction, but very easy to kill the fish.....therefore not a recommended sedative agent

garden worms r safe bro. i mean the birds seem to do fine on it but, there have been a series of studies investigating the nutritional content of earthworms....they were thinking of vermicultre as a new source of protein for the aquaculture... anyway, they found that worms were less palatable, due to chemical(s) in their coelomic cavity--gives them a bad taste.......furthermore, the worms contained an enzyme that breaks down proteins.....it's something to do with typsin......but anyway, it lowers their nutritional value to the fish..... however, they r still extremely valuable as a good feed for your fishes....u just have to get them to accept it. try 'splitting' the worm longitudinally, remove the guts etc, wash it in water n feed it.....seems to work for me fishes. chopping it into smaller bits helps too.

Yeah....that's the whole purpose of measuring GH.... hardness etc..species tolerance/preference .....some species r kinda sensitive to hard water...tetras for e.g Fish do try to regulate calcium levels( physiologically speaking)....but if levels in the water r too high---say from adding pure CaCl into the water, the gills n kidneys might not b able to handle it. trout commonly get nephrocalcinosis--calcium crystals in the kidneys when reared in high Ca diets or hard water.......so it can actually b toxic, like virtually every other substance

yeah, just like what Rob has suggested, it's best simply to avoid it. not convinced? try dipping some of the shells in vinegar. if they sizzle, esp from the white chalky bits, it indicates that they contain carbonates( i think) n r undesirable in most freshwater aquariums....

hi dogmatix! sheeeezzzzzzz that's quite a bit sounds like hard work well, it does come down to how much water your tank can hold...n stocking densities right? perhaps u can set a base-line by measuring nitrates n pH over time....that'll give u a rough idea of the minimum frequency/vol of water changes needed to keep these values low n constant( bearing in mind that the things do grow n excrete more waste over time)

Although the name sounds totally new, but awe!!! that's an awesome looking thing! congrats bro