Jame5 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Hi Everyone, This is my first time keeping fish and my first time on this site. All is not well in my tank and I would really appreciate some help. I've just realised this is rather a lengthy post, so please bear with me. I bought a second hand 100L tank, two 'sting-ray' type filters and an air pump with two air lines from a friend about a month ago. I got some gravel from the pet store (realise now I should have rinsed it before I put it in the tank) and new spongy filter elements as well. It all went in the tank with water I treated using AquaPlus. I had it all running for 3-4 days before introducing my five new goldfish buddies. The water became cloudy and remained so until I moved the filters to their correct position just below the surface (I had them on the bottom of the tank - my friend was surprised and said she thought a male should have known better). Anyway, the water cleared, everything looked good and my fish started to come to the surface to say "hello" when I went to look in on them. A week or so later I got two more fish and all seemed well until a couple of days ago. I have been changing 20% of the water weekly (suctioning the gravel) and feeding no more than the fish can eat in a couple of minutes every day. I am aware of the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle, and though I haven't tested the water, assumed the partial changes would take care of any problems. The tank is in my lounge and out of direct sunlight. Now the reasons for my concern. My fish seem to have lost some of their glossy sheen and also have white spot. I've treated the tank with a broad spectrum fungicide (two orange capsules with yellow powdery contents I got from the pet store), but this is the least of my worries. The largest of my fish (about 12cm long) has developed red blemishes where the caudal, anal and pectoral fins meet the body, and also on the side of the body. Its fins are held flat against the body, and it often darts around and bashes itself into the gravel. It also seems to gasp often. At other times it is almost motionless, resting in an inclined position on one of the filters. There also appears to be some deterioration of the caudal fin at its V. Another of my fish frequently lodges itself in an upright position between the filter and the side of the tank where it flaps away for hours. This behaviour is mimicked by the others who frequently congregate at the surface in one corner and thrash away, tumbling all over each other. Some of my fish have also lost a few of their scales. All of them have exhibited some of these symptoms at some time or an other. I really like my fish and hate to see animals suffering, but if this is what I have to look foward to, I think I might get rid of the fish and take up knitting. It would be much less stressful. Can anyone help? Thank you, James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 I would get the water tested first. If there are/have been ammonia..spikes then that would of burned the skin, making the goldies more prone to diseases. The reason I think this is that the diseases you have described are common for goldies when things go wrong. Although in saying that I bet one of your goldies was carrying more than its fair share of problems. Especially if newly imported; I have seen my fair share of sickly goldies. Where I used to work, treating new goldies was a rountine rather than wait & see if they are carrying anything...we had our own home brew parasite mixture, so wasn't a costly exercise. Firstly white spot treatment is an anti parasite, so fungicide is worthless here. The ones that are breathing heavy & thrashing about, sounds like parasites too. Use Praziquantel. The red sores, are more than likely a gram-negative Bacterial infection. Oxytetracycline is what I would probably use. Good luck. I am not sure how these drugs react if used together. Maybe best to treat for the parasites first. Maybe the bottles will have warnings, or whatever. Full course of treatment needed for both. Parasites usually treat for just over a week, bacterial infections is 10 days. Or if only one has sores, cull this one now & just concentrate on the parasites. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jame5 Posted June 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Hi Frenchy, Thanks for your reply. I must say I'm still rather perplexed. Why would a parasitic infection cause all my fish to congregate in 2% of the tank? Could rubbing against eachother bring some relief from the infection? Is it significant that they gather in the corner nearest to where the bubbles from the air pump rise? Dumbfounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Hi Jame.. welcome to the forums. You say: Is it significant that they gather in the corner nearest to where the bubbles from the air pump rise? The fish are telling you that something is drastically wrong. A fish that constantly hides is usually afraid of something.. One that floats to the surface has usually a swim bladder disorder.. One that gasps at the surface .. or congregates near the most water disturbance normally means poor water conditions.. or the lack of disolved oxygen in the water... or perhaps the temp is too high. In your situation.. it sounds like your tank water is high in ammonia.. The largest of my fish (about 12cm long) has developed red blemishes where the caudal, anal and pectoral fins meet the body, and also on the side of the body. Its fins are held flat against the body, and it often darts around and bashes itself into the gravel. It also seems to gasp often. At other times it is almost motionless, resting in an inclined position on one of the filters. There also appears to be some deterioration of the caudal fin at its V. The redness could possibly be from high ammonia content.. or high stress levels... The darting around could also be caused by ammonia.. as it is literally burning the gills and scales from the fish. Fish with white spot will often flash against something.. but usually are not suicidal by bashing themselves into the gravel. The "motionless" fish are probably too exhausted to move.. and are possibly at a point of giving in. The loss of sheen or glossyness is also a sign of stress or ammonia probs. The missing scales "may" be due to the fish scraping the gravel.. but once these scales come off.. then the fish is open to infection. You say that one of your fish is 120mm long.. A hundred litres sounds a big amount.. but for Goldfish.. (seven of them).. you seem to have rushed into things a little too fast.. which appears to be around three days. What you need at this point is lots of water changes.. around 25% two or three times a week.. or more if you can afford the time.. plus you need to get some air flowing in there.. as the fish are hanging around the only place they know there is enough air to support them. A good airstone should do the trick. Your fish need "immediate" treatment.. and if they were mine.. I would give them a daily salt bath.. as follows. Get a couple of 10ltr buckets handy and some Sea Salt from the supermarket.. (blue bag.. costs around three bucks) Thoroughly mix two heaped tablespoons of the salt into one bucket filled with tank water. It's important to make sure it is thoroughly mixed "before" adding the fish. Fill the other bucket in readness for the treated fish. Net a couple of the fish and pop them into the bucket with the salt mix in. Leave them in there for around ten minutes.. but keep a watch on them to ensure they don't stress out too much. They may protest slightly.. but don't worry.. but if they are obviously stressing out.. then reduce the salt mix slightly by diluting the water with tank water... but only do this if they won't settle in the bucket. After ten mins.. pop them into the other bucket. Repeat for the rest of the fish. If they seem content in the salt mix.. then you can extend the time somewhat. IMPORTANT: You will have to repeat the above "every day" until the fish recover. Use a fresh mix each day.. and you can increase the salt content slightly if the fish are comfortable with the treatment. This is what is known as the "Progressive Salt Treatment. What it does is it flushes the old mucus from the fish which allows new mucus to quickly form.. as any fish without the mucus is an open target for disease and infection. Might be a good time to do a water change while all this is going on. There "could" be white spot cysts on the bottom.. so use a siphon and go over as much of the bottom as you can. I would also concentrate on this.. more than the White Spot at the moment.. as what you have can kill your fish far quicker if you don't sort it out quickly. Once the fish start to look a bit healthier.. then you can continue the WS treatment if they still have it. Hope it goes well. Take care now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Yeah, what Bill said. 8) By the way herefishiefishie, goldfish have been banned imports in NZ for many many years so they won't be imports, sickly or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 I would get the water tested first. If there are/have been ammonia..spikes then that would of burned the skin, making the goldies more prone to diseases. The reason I think this is that the diseases you have described are common for goldies when things go wrong. Although in saying that I bet one of your goldies was carrying more than its fair share of problems. Umm thats why I had this up first. :roll: Goldfish are still a dirty fish as in high carriers of diseases. Imported ones are worse. Banned ah, wow. Thats good too. ps; did forget to add some salt to the tank as well. 1 tbsp per 40 litres be fine. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Hey guys yeah i agree with ammonia burning of your fish I wouldnt myself remove the fish from its enviroment as this will stress them out alittle to much at the moment I would do daily 20% water changes for a week and then twice a week do 25% changes for the next 3 to 4 weeks Salt in your tank always as justin said goldfish are prone to alot of different diseases and parasites I would use a tbl spoon to each 60l and add again every water change(important only add enough to cover the amount of water you have taken out) Cut the feeding back alot for the next few weeks At the same i would treat your fish for white spot because this is all added stress You will need a specific treatment for this though the salt will be helping as well Invest some money into a decent test kit and you will be able to check the water quality when you ever notice your fish acting differently You say know you have a knowledge of the Nitrogen cycle of you fish tank but you have followed any of the main rules to ensure your fish will be kept in clean water Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 You say know you have a knowledge of the Nitrogen cycle of you fish tank but you have followed any of the main rules to ensure your fish will be kept in clean water Excuse me Brad, 8) would that be haven't not have? What you said makes sense. I wouldn't be moving fish either & to help produce slime coat you only need a little salt & there are plenty of products that help in slime coat production, check any of the good chlorine neutralisers. The salt bath is mainly used here to kill parasites on the fish. Just a note, When treating parasites this way. Place 4 teaspoons of salt in a bucket per 4 litres of water from the aquarium. What amount is some? Once the salt is dissolved, place the fish in the bucket for five to thirty minutes. Observe the fish closely, and if it exhibits any signs of distress, return it to the fish tank immediately. Or once they lose balance, as in tilting over. How did you go? Get your water tested? Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 You have been given lots of advice so I all I'll say is don't buy any more fishies till you get everything sorted out. Are they all goldfish? You may have reached you're limit for that size tank. Good luck, take your time when doing things, don't rush and take a deep breath Oh wise fishy people, what is 12 cm in inches??? :oops: :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustcooktea Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 what is 12 cm in inches??? :oops: :oops: 4 3/4 inches. Not sure if the measurement includes the tail or not? MCT How are the fish today, James? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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