puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 They rate the calcium reactors to tank size. The bigger the tank, the more stock, therefore more calcium and alk demand. makes no sense,IMO, to say they are only bigger to make the media last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 makes no sense,IMO, to say they are only bigger to make the media last longer makes a lot of sense for the companies that make them. they sell people bigger once when they upgrade because the poor suckers believe that a bigger CR will be so much better. its called making more profit. $$$$$ i run the smallest CR i know off "dupla" on a 1300 liter system. works almost well but have to refill the bloody thing every 3 weeks, and thats the only short coming it has. i use calcium chips, magnesium chips and coral rubble. you could always increase CO2 bubbles and out flow as long as the effluent gets airiated? (spe.) enough to remove excess CO2 before it enters the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Surely there must be a limit to how much you can increase the flow and CO2, at some stage the flow must get so high that the water isn't in the reactor long enough for the 'reaction' to happen? Increasing the volume of the reactor would increase the amount of time water is in the reactor at a given flow rate allowing you to drive the reactor harder? I always assumed that the reason larger reactors are rated for larger tanks was because of the extra water volume inside as well as the extra media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 good point suphew. don't know how much time is needed for the CO2 to desolve the coral rubble to get good result, worth playing around and doing some tests. on thing i noticed that when my drip stops due to whatever problem :roll: my reactor turns milky in colour very quickly. i assume that this means that my water is "supersaturated" or is there another reason why it changes from perfect clear to cloudy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Increasing the volume of the reactor would increase the amount of time water is in the reactor at a given flow rate allowing you to drive the reactor harder? I always assumed that the reason larger reactors are rated for larger tanks was because of the extra water volume inside as well as the extra media yeah that makes sense. say you had same drip and bubble rate, then the greater the water volume in the reactor the slower the turnover of water in it. since the slower turnover of water, then the more co2 injected per litre of water in it than a smaller reactor (sort of the reverse than what you'd think as the smaller reactor actually turns over the entire water volume, thus the CO2 as well, faster than a larger reactor) So the larger reactor would have a longer CO2 to media contact time. Hang on,... brain just stopped working... give,... it,... a few.... seconds... I notice if I shake my reactor every now and then, all the CO2 bubbles come running up through the media. Almost like the circulation pump on it is not circulating the water properly causing the bubbles to be stuck at the bottom of the chamber. Last time I ripped it to bits, the media pad that sits at the bottom was so clogged I believe thats what caused the impellor on the circulation pump to screw out. Probably happening again,... already. Dammit. As I discussed with Pies a while back, his Korallin is a short wider design mine is tall and slim (a bit like our statures aye pies ) I would go for the short wider one over the tall narrow design as the circulation pump seems to work that much better - dont think hes ever had a problem with his getting clogged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 my reactor turns milky in colour very quickly. i assume that this means that my water is "supersaturated" or is there another reason why it changes from perfect clear to cloudy? drip rate stops, CO2 rate continues. more CO2, more dissolved media in the reactor, go the milky colour. mine does exactly the same. PITA. damn clogged outlets.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I notice if I shake my reactor every now and then, all the CO2 bubbles come running up through the media. Almost like the circulation pump on it is not circulating the water properly causing the bubbles to be stuck at the bottom of the chamber. Last time I ripped it to bits, the media pad that sits at the bottom was so clogged I believe thats what caused the impellor on the circulation pump to screw out. Probably happening again,... already. Dammit. As I discussed with Pies a while back, his Korallin is a short wider design mine is tall and slim (a bit like our statures aye pies ) I would go for the short wider one over the tall narrow design as the circulation pump seems to work that much better - dont think hes ever had a problem with his getting clogged could this be because the media you use is quite small say 3-5mm, you may find if you used larger media it may not block the same? as reef said i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 could this be because the media you use is quite small say 3-5mm, you may find if you used larger media it may not block the same? as reef said i think yes and no. at first yes, but after a while dissolved media (that doesnt escape as effluent) has a tendency, with a bit of assistance from our friend gravity, to drop to the bottom of the chamber causing the clogging. i noticed this moreso with an increase in the bubble rate (go figure) but at a lower bubble rate, it didnt break down enough. catch-22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Do these reactors push the water up thru the media, or does it go down? If it went up thru, you may find it wouldn't clog the same. My diy one worked like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 water goes in the top, although the circulation pump takes that water and pushes it from the bottom up. thats why the impellor screwed out last time, it was trying to pump water down and back up yet the media pad at the bottom of the reactor was clogged so it go a bit of back pressure causing the wear on the impellor. dumb design really. i think there would be much smarter ways of doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 the larger reactor would have a longer CO2 to media contact time But if you give it longer contact time then the media will desolve and clog the reactor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 on thing i noticed that when my drip stops due to whatever problem my reactor turns milky in colour very quickly. i assume that this means that my water is "supersaturated" or is there another reason why it changes from perfect clear to cloudy? The reason could be that the media has dissolved as too much co2 is going in the reactor. Media breaks down at about 6.5ph, any more and the reactor can go cloudy and then clog up. Bigger the media the better. You will get more flow and reactor won’t block. Product plug removed Bill Mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Well I spent some more $$$ at Med Chem today. Hope the wife does not see. Ca, MG and epson salts. Used the wifes eletric hand mixer in a bucket and it worked great even on the baked baking soda. Added 25% of the recommindation from the reef calculator and will test in a day or so. Should last a while 75kg of additives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 what....???????????? how pc do we we want to be *********************************************************** Read the Guidelines TM.. then contact the Admin if you have a complaint. From Guidelines. Bill Mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Hey Chim- I believe that I have the same reactor as you. I’ve certainly had HEAPS of trouble getting mine set from time to time. (Not exactly Plug-and-Play!! :evil: ) TM can attest to this as well since he is taking care of my tank while I am abroad and had a few headaches resetting it after I refilled the C02 bottle just prior to my departure. (Sorry about that TM!! :oops: ) Further evidence that these things aren’t that obvious to setup is the REALLY long thread on RC solely dedicated to helping owners of our type of CR to get set properly. At any rate, when I finally got it set, it worked really well, i.e. spot on levels for the entire duration of the C02 bottle, and I’m very happy with it. From what I remember, Pies has the same CR as well (only bigger) and from what I remember, he has been fairly happy with his as well. (Pies feel free to comment here!! ) The differences from my setup to yours (I believe) are that I have the one size bigger Eheim circulation pump, i.e. twice the flow as the “out of the box CR†which the representative said would make it run much better, and my input is teed off from return pump, i.e. quite high pressure in the reactor. I believe that the instructions recommend that the reactor is fed with a pump to increase pressure rather than simply gravity fed from the tank (sorry, can’t remember how you said yours is fed). The extra pressure from the pumped input certainly helps with keeping my output lines from clogging, but I still had to open the valve to blow out all the crud about once per week to keep the drip rate consistent. The extra circulation from the bigger pump may help to avoid clogging since I’ve never had a problem with my pad getting clogged. When the media finally degraded and needed to be replace, it just got to a point of being fluidized. My bubble rate was a more than 1 per second. My drip rate was quite high. I have both outlets open (thus two drip rates) that are both around 2 drips per second. I haven’t seen my tank in almost 3 months, so this is from memory. TM can probably fill in whatever mistakes I’ve made here in reporting the current rates. As for my media, I just bought a bag of (what was labeled) Aragonite (looks like 2-3mm white gravel to me) and some dolomite for maintaining Mg. From memory, I think ~20% of the media in the reactor is dolomite. As for comparison to the dosing method, I did that for quite some time before investing in the reactor. I bought one of those IKS triple dosing pumps, and thus dosed all three parts of Randy’s DIY recipe continuously. Each week I made up new 15 liter batches of all three, which I found to be a bit of a PITA. The big issue for me was getting the baked baking soda to dissolve. I had to essentially boil the water and slowly add the baking soda or else it would just form large, very hard clumps, and thus not provide me with the appropriate concentrations. Also one of the mixes (can’t remember which one now, I think it was the Mg), would crystallize in the bucket over time, and thus providing me the incorrect concentrations as well. I also had much more build up inside my pumps and had to clean those every few months. With the CR, this hasn't been a problem. For those who use this method, do you have the same issues? Given this, I personally find the CR to be a better method for me. Basically once it is set, I just flush the outlets every so often and all is good. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Yes, I had ALL those issues when using 2 part mix, in fact it was funny reading what you said, it mirrored my experience EXACTLY. :lol: Just something I learned, a tip for people who are using 2 part mix, the baking soda is real hard to dissolve. Try putting the water in a bucket, adding the baking soda, then knead the baking soda with your fingers. You won't believe me till you try it, but you'll have it dissolved REAL fast. What kind of reactor are we talking about Steve? Deltec? My experience when starting with it was very similar to you, a lot of difficulty & I started to despair that I had ever bought it! However I do have it sussed now, and there is no way I would now go back to all the hassling around with 2 part mix. The issue of the effluent tube clogging, I've discovered how to solve that also, I'm not saying mine is never going to clog, but it's certainly been a few months now & still clean as a whistle ( well nearly! ). IMO anyone starting with a ca reactor should get an experienced user of the same brand, to help them set it up. This way all the anguish can be avoided and the new operator can move straight to the part where you discover just how sweet life can be with a properly running ca reactor. Not knocking any of the other systems though they are all good, purely depends on what suits a person best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 What kind of reactor are we talking about Steve? I'm using the Korallin C3002, but I believe with an Eheim 1250 instead of the 1048. One thing that I am definitely not happy about with this reactor is the poor quality of the gate valves. They leak, clog up quite easily and are probably the biggest attributor of difficulty fine tuning. :evil: I'm looking to find some replacements, but haven't found any yet. What is your trick to avoiding clogging of the outlets? I read somewhere (possibly even earlier in this thread) that it is best to use a long length of hose and adjust the drip rates via friction. I am thinking of trying this, but again seems like a rather large fixed cost of fiddling (the whole lazy thing factoring in again :oops: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 What is your trick to avoiding clogging of the outlets? Most of the problems might be solved if the media was bigger, larger media means more flow and less clogging as small media breaks down too quick, Edited. Bill Mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Reef Comments: Beware that my comments could be subjective as I import these things and might be seen as product pushing] Take warning Reef.. You are "still" pushing your products. Vendors, please be aware that product pushing will also be considered a violation of the guidelines Any further posts with this addition will be removed without warning.. irrespective of their content. Read the Guidelines. Posts that are not respectful of other members are not welcome here. Posts with the intent of “creating a reaction†are not welcome here. Take note.. that I am a member here.. one that is dedicated to the responsibility I was given. You are being dis-respectful to me for doing the work I was assigned to do here.. plus you are posting to create a reaction from me.. which you now have. Recently you PM'd me with a complaint regarding a member doing the "exact" same thing that you are doing.. obviously someone in competition with you. We have one set of guidelines.. and they apply to ALL members. Suggestion: Promote your products in the Commercial Section.. do a write up of the benefits.. I'm sure you will get lots of feedback. Bill Mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I can see the benefit of a reactor, however I can also see tht one would become a little lazy and, let go of the helm and not check their readings on a weekly basis. It would be very easy to say, "She'll be right, the reactor is there". Thats why I manually dose to the correct parameters weekly. COZ I HAVE TO OR MY TANK SUFFERS WITH LOW KH. (I chew 5KH per week, so after a week and a half I'm in the danger zone). THATS WHY YOU GUYS ALWAYS GO ON ABOUT HAVING SLIGHTLY LOW MG AND CA ETC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/the-ru ... t3805.html Contact Admins for complaints. Please stay on topic. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I can see the benefit of a reactor, however I can also see tht one would become a little lazy and, let go of the helm and not check their readings on a weekly basis. It would be very easy to say, "She'll be right, the reactor is there". Thats why I manually dose to the correct parameters weekly. COZ I HAVE TO OR MY TANK SUFFERS WITH LOW KH. (I chew 5KH per week, so after a week and a half I'm in the danger zone). THATS WHY YOU GUYS ALWAYS GO ON ABOUT HAVING SLIGHTLY LOW MG AND CA ETC). How is having a set reactor any different from having calculated the amount of Ca, KH and MG consumption for your tank over a given time period and then routinely just make up the dosing recipe each time according to that ratio for the dosing pump that's set on a timer? There's no difference in need to check the parameters. Personally, I check my parameters AT LEAST weekly regardless of the method I use. It's just part of ensuring the best environment for your fish and corals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Maybe not for you joe, but I know other people get slack! They have admitted it. If I had a reactor I think I may too a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 10, 2006 Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 Steve, no time now I'm afraid but I'll post re the clogging thing after the weekend. I don't know anything about your brand of reactor but I'm sure the principle is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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