What do with a 30L tank

[sharn]

everything i have read about the strips of paper seem to be not that good, seems they are pretty inacurate :-? i only have a ph, kh & gh and nitrate kit that i use. i have ammonia too but i have never needed it cause i do alot of water changes. they are expensivish but i think 40 bucks it worth it for the happyness and healthyness of my fish. if your fish are playing up you look to the water first and i find it less stressful to be able to test and rectify any problem instead of waiting till the next morning for the LFS to open up.

nitrite and ammonia kits will help to let you know when the cycle is finished but you probably wont use them after that unless you are having probs with sick fish and need to rule out the above two as a possible cause.

you dont need kh and gh but i was having problems with my fish and after testing for it i found we have a very low kh and that makes the ph very unstable. it wouldnt hurt to get a base reading of your tap water done at the LFS just so you know what your working with and if it will be necessary to moniter this.

ph is helpful if you are keeping some of the pickier species or are a ph nut and try to keep it to as natural as possible :lol:

i use my nitrate kit to tell me when to do water changes.

[nz_mitch]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice.

The tank I've got has a Rio 200 filter - it's pretty fast; I don't think I'm going to leave it on all night I think it'll exhaust the poor guppies!

Also, I don't think it'd be that suited for Bettas either would it? Is there anyway to slow it down or should I replace it?

Thanks again

[Alan]

You don't turn off the filter ever, except to clean it, then you use tank water to clean the filtration media and/or sponge.

Alan 104

[nz_mitch]

If I run the Rio 200 all the Guppies end up in one corner

[SpidersWeb]

If I run the Rio 200 all the Guppies end up in one corner

Get a smaller filter, perhaps a simple undergravel (driven using the air pump). Its a small tank so you should be fine with basic filtration. With your fish choices, I wouldn't be too worried about water parameters either. All I beleive you need to do is:

-> put gravel in a bag with a bit of water

-> put guppies in bag

-> drain completely and clean tank using a rag and clean water to remove algae build up

-> install cheap undergravel filter, and hook up air pump

-> put gravel in

-> fill using warm water and add Water Ager (to remove chlorine)

-> check temp (between 23-28 degrees), and setup heater

-> put fish in

-> do partial water changes (25-35%) once a week using water ager (or if the tank water ever doesn't look right e.g. cloudy)

If we're talking Siamese Fighting Fish and/or guppies, neons etc in a small tank, then the list above will do you fine Most important thing is to have fun with the tank!

Oh and the purpose of a filter in your tank, is more to build up bacteria that eat nasties in the tank like ammonia and nitrites, rather than to pick up bits floating in the water, which is why its not a good idea to turn it off for long periods (e.g. overnight) as the bacteria will die, and also why an undergravel filter will do you fine.

[Caper]

So...did I miss something here...the original plan was set up tank for girlfriend's birthday right? I am in the right thread :-? OH MY GOSH...I am...MTS has struck already WOW!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Your filter will contain media that will be home to the "good" bacteria that you want for your tank. To give you an example, my filter has a "bio" filter that NEVER gets changed, and if it is really yucky, only gets swished around and rinsed in water that has been removed from the tank, when I'm doing the monthly cleaning, I save the last bucket of water to house my filter while I'm cleaning and the do the "swishy" around routine with it.

Now, I'm not familiar with all the different filter media that is out there, but many here are. But, the wise ones can correct me if I'm wrong, but all filters have some type of media that is home to the "good" bacteria.

The movement of the water through the filter keeps the bacteria alive (again oh wise ones correct if I'm stating this in the wrong way); therefore, turn off filter, "good" bacteria dies. Now it does take some time, but turning your filter off, other than to clean, on a regular basis is a no no.

Hope that helps :-?

[whetu]

I've even bought the driftwood!

D'oh! That'll teach me for pointing out my favourite pieces of driftwood!

Good on you, mitch. I'm sure that will look great in the GIRLFRIEND'S tank :lol:

Oh yeah and I forgot to include the filter in the buget. You're right that guppies and bettas don't like the stronger filtration. Personally I'm not keen on under gravel filters in a planted tank - I would rather get a small 'hang-on-back' filter (that's one that hangs on the back of the tank and makes it easy to get the media out for rinsing).

So now you can sell the filter on trademe ... OR... keep it for your GIRLFRIEND'S next tank! :lol:

[evilknieval69]

i say keep it for the next tank....

It will save you having to go out and buy one quickly when you suddenly NEED another tank for some random reason.... be it, fish fights or babys

Good luck anyway

Rogan

[nz_mitch]

All seems to be going quite well - I've set up an UG filter and using water condition has sped up the process of getting everything going.

This morning though a couple of the larger guppies were hiding in the corner and most of the rest were hanging round the surface - this lead me to believe there was an oxygen shortage/perhaps nitrate poisoning, although after a water change and a feed they were happy as larry again. What I'm guessing from this is that there's a reasonable colony of stage 1 bacteria that survived the transfer, just need to build up a bit more stage 2..

I think the way the UG filter is set up means it's not oxygenating the tank enough; there's only about 2cm of water before the bubbles reach the surface - I bought some more hosing but it's too small to connect to the end of the pipe so I'll get some more on Monday. What would give the best oxygenation, an air stone or just a better placed, free-flowing outlet (I'd assume an air-stone, with the higher surface area..), also is alright to put an airtsone on the end of a UG filter?

I've also read that it can be good to add a bit of sea-salt to the water - any thoughts on this?

Driftwood should arrive tomorrow/Tuesday then I'll buy some new plants and get the figher on Friday/Saturday (figure I should leave it as long as possible 'til I add another fish).

Thanks

[Keri Anne]

Not "Sea salt"... "Tonic salt".

Somebody who paid attention in chemistry (I was too busy trying to stir up the teacher as he was a jerk :oops: ) will be able to explain to you the difference. I do know that they are different.

I always put a little in with my livebearers although I only use about a ½ dose as a lot of them are with clown loaches and bristlenoses. I like to keep all of my tanks relatively similar as I tend to get “Bright ideas†[which often involve putting a breeding net in here and moving that fish from this tank to the tank over there] at the most inappropriate of times. Eg: 3 minutes before I have to go to work.

[nz_mitch]

Thanks Keri Anne, I'll sort that out tomorrow - they seem to be very happy at the moment though, I'll still be keeping a close eye on them.

Also, for those who paid attention in biology, I'm not sure if the plants survived the move (I think it may have initially been one or two big plants, it's now 4 or 5 smaller plants ). I figured if they were alive they'd be pointing towards the light, but they don't seem to move?

If they're dead I'd like to take them out (I imagine rotting plants is a rather unneccessary bio-load); but I don't want to waste them if they're still alive (they're still green and I'm not finding all that many loose leaves floating about..)

[Keri Anne]

I've found entire baby plants growing off of loose leaves that have been chucked in a bucket to throw away with a little water and then forgotten about. If leaves are still green give them a chance. At least thats MHO.

[whetu]

Yeah, if the plants are still green, keep them in the tank. If they go yellow or slimey or start to fall apart then you're right about the extra bio-load and you should remove them.

What kind of plants are they? (I can't remember if you mentioned that in one of your earlier posts.)

And you're also right to wait as long as possible before adding any extra fish. Keep a close eye on the ones you have, and add extra aeration at the first sign of distress. The air stone will definitely help with oxygen levels in the water - lots of tiny bubbles are better than a few big ones.

You seem to be doing a very good job so far. Keep it up!

Oh, and be sure to take a photo of your girlfriend when she sees the tank and post it here. :bounce: :bounce: When is her birthday?

[Fishkeepa]

I read somewhere that it is not actually the bubles in the water it is the ripples on the surface that increase the area over which oxygenation can occur. But airstones are good for helping to create water flow to avoid hotspots

A hang on back filter with waterfall return is great to help oxygenate :bounce:

Keep us updated

[Caper]

If they go yellow or slimey or start to fall apart

Since I don't have real plants, what would cause plants to do this?

hat it is not actually the bubles in the water it is the ripples on the surface

That's my understanding as well, it's the surface movement that results with...a...shoot...don't know how to say it correctly...so, to put it simply, more surface movement, more oxygenation, oh gosh, wise fishy people explain better please

[Keri Anne]

Okay [thinks back to 3rd form science class] the way I understand it is this:

Gasses are extended between air and water wherever they come into contact with each other. Therefore, the more water moves the more gas that can be exchanged. (This is because more water is spending time on the surface.) While an air stone causes water to come into contact with air the exchanged gasses still have to go somewhere. [This is why bubbles go up.] The bubbles going up causes water movement. – This means that more water spends its turn on the surface in a shorter period of time, which allows more gas exchange. While a minute amount of gas exchange happens with the small bubbles from the air stone the majority of the benefit comes from water movement.

That said, my UG outlets are above the water surface causing a waterfall effect. This is simply because I like the sound of waterfalls better than the bubbling of hot pools and when you have a *few* tanks running you need to consider sound as well.

Hope this helps.

KA.

[nz_mitch]

I think it's Hygrophila polysperma, which appears to be about the hardiest aquarium plant out there. I've left most of it in there and while it doesn't seem to be growing before me eyes; it's doing alright.

Fish are very happy too - darting around, eating well and seemed to have settled in, I added some more gravel (I removed a whole lot of marbles that I didn't like so much) a few days ago. I mixed it around a bit with the new gravel and everything seems to be doing well.

Today my driftwood arrive and I should've known that "soaked and ready to drop into your tank" didn't mean I could just drop it into the tank - what's the best way to keep it on the bottom? I looked around for the fishing tackle box to see if I could find any lead weights but goodness knows where that's gone, is there any clever way to do it (I don't imagine burying it in gravel would work...) or will this follow the splendid trend I've noticed in everything aquarium related, where I'll have to guy and buy something else?

As far as oxygenation goes issues a few days ago I have realised in hindsight that I wasn't simply running the tank to hot (in my excitement to breed as much bacteria as possible); the fish are very happy now that I've got it around 27-28 (which should suit the Betta too?).

I'm picking the Betta up on Saturday and if I can get this driftwood fixed tomorrow I'll hopefully get some Java moss to attach to it to make a bit of a hiding spot for the Betta so everything seems to be going well.

Thanks again everyone for your help!

[Keri Anne]

Go to one of your lovely Auckland rocky beaches....

Pick out a few large stones you like (5 is a good number)....

Go home and boil rocks.... Boil the driftwood with them just in case....

Use rocks to weigh down drift wood.

Easy.

[whetu]

I think it's Hygrophila polysperma, which appears to be about the hardiest aquarium plant out there. I've left most of it in there and while it doesn't seem to be growing before me eyes; it's doing alright.

Yep, that's one tough plant. Give it some time to settle before it really starts to grow, but once it starts it will take over that little tank of yours! But don't let me put you off... it's great for sucking up excess nutrients and propagates easily. An excellent choice for a beginner plant. You (I mean YOUR GIRLFRIEND :lol:) can move on to more difficult plants later.

Today my driftwood arrive and I should've known that "soaked and ready to drop into your tank" didn't mean I could just drop it into the tank - what's the best way to keep it on the bottom?

ha ha! This is exactly the question I asked that seller. They said it was soaked and ready to drop in the tank - I asked if that meant it was pre-sunk and they said of course not! It would be hard to mail if it was pre-sunk! (Of course this is nonsense, it just weighs a bit more.)

I have a piece of driftwood that I bought off trade me. It's been in my tank for more than two years and is still being weighed down by large stones. The key factors that determine how long it will take to sink seem to be...

• How dry it was to start with
  How dense the wood is

The stones on top of the wood definitely work, but IMO they change the aesthetics of the tank - which is why I put the wood in to start with. An alternative long-term solution is to get some slate and screw it to the bottom of the wood, using stainless steel screws. Then bury the slate under the gravel so you don't see it.

Another option is to tie the wood to the rock with a cable tie or fishing nylon - at least that way the rock is under the wood, not on top of it (but this is hard to do - the rock needs to not be too rounded.

My advice: sink the wood with stones first, then if it hasn't sunk after a couple of months, do the slate trick.

I'm picking the Betta up on Saturday and if I can get this driftwood fixed tomorrow I'll hopefully get some Java moss to attach to it to make a bit of a hiding spot for the Betta so everything seems to be going well.

Excellent! PICS NEEDED! :bounce:

[nz_mitch]

Yep, that's one tough plant. Give it some time to settle before it really starts to grow, but once it starts it will take over that little tank of yours! But don't let me put you off... it's great for sucking up excess nutrients and propagates easily. An excellent choice for a beginner plant. You (I mean YOUR GIRLFRIEND :lol:) can move on to more difficult plants later.

Yea I think that'll be particularly good, as the UG filter only covers about half the tank - so I'll put the plants in the area the filter doesn't cover, that should help prevent any (if there were any in such a small tank!) deadspots, right?

Thanks for the advice, I'll see if I can find one perfectly shaped arched rock to hold the driftwood down, otherwise the slate trick sounds quite clever.. would an ice-cream container lid be alright for the slate?

[Fishkeepa]

I guess if you put enough gravel over it and it outwieghs the woods bouyancy an ice cream container lid could work. I guess it depend on the size and bouyancy of the wood. Good thinking you might want to give that a try :bounce:

[nz_mitch]

I cut out the bottom of the ice-cream container (I figured that was safer than the chemically emblazened "Cadbury Crunchie" lid) and screwed it to the bottom of the driftwood and buried it; worked a treat.. although my water's now gone all cloudy from the substrate disturbance... other than that though it's looking good.

[nz_mitch]

Water's cleared now that everything's settled - I'm very pleased with my ice-cream container handiwork. Now I've got another pressing question! How many snails is too many snails? I can quickly count 10-15 just looking around the tank and I'm guessing there'd be a lot more if I look hard. Do I need to engage in some intervening population control? They don't really bother me too much and I figure they'yre good - turning waste into harmless shell, but seeing as there's a lot of them on the glass would it be worth just plucking some out? (forgive my inhumanity, I'll put them in the 'spare' tank!)

[nz_mitch]

Woohoo, three posts in a row!

Just wanted to ask about the UG filter again; it only covers half the tank and I don't have any other filter, is this going to cause a problem down the track? A lot of what I read about UG filters isn't particularly comforting. Perhaps it'd be worth buying a cheap hang-on filter, but would this clash with the UG filter (one sucking up, the other down)?

Thanks

[Alan]

No the whole base doesn't need UG-filtration.

That will make the plant guys happy any way.

I plant above my UF-plates and don't have probs with my plants, theory is, as far as I'm concerned, is that that is where the most nutrients are, and also in the water column itself. Also the deepest gravel.

Alan 104