KP Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'm in the process of designing my tank setup. The main objectives are that the overflow is hidden, quiet, takes up minimal tank space and takes water from the middle of the tank. Just need a strainer over the bulkhead to stop fishies getting sucked in. I am thinking two of these overflows would be the way to go. Not sure of pipe size? Anyone got a sharp stick to help the design process get moving? Thanks Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 In theory the airhole at the top of the tank should break the siphon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 That is correct, your tank water height will be the bottom of your horizontal part of your "T" joiner if there is a failure. Alan 104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 One problem is you are not taking water from top of tank and so will end up with oil film on water surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 :roll: oh right, so it is better to have the traditional 'overflow' to remove floating things. What about debris that is not at the surface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 This looks a bit like and external durso, don't see why it wouldn't work (surface skimmiing might be a problem) but I would make sure you apply the durso rules, ie reduce the pipe size at some point to get some back pressure. Check out www.dursostandpipes.com if you haven't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostface Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 most of the proteins that we need to remove from the water are at the surface, hence the overflow design that is widely used. having good in-tank circulation will ensure that any crap in the water column will eventually end up going over the overflow and into your filtration system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Cool, thanks . I'll go with a triangle shaped overflow in the corner with the dunso standpipe. Is it better to just let it overflow the piece of glass or should their be a comb on top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I have a full siphon completely trouble free 100% quiet system on my 1400 litre system. If youre interested, I can explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Durso's are noisy if you live in the sticks. If you live in town they shoud be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I used to live in the sticks about 4 months ago, I'm keen on some insight about your setup :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Has anyone had problems with just a single overflow getting blocked ect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I have a full siphon completely trouble free 100% quiet system on my 1400 litre system. So far........ :lol: :lol: KP 95% of people use durso's, there are other ways, but theres good reasons why most people stick to the tried and tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 So far........ :lol: :lol: KP 95% of people use durso's, there are other ways, but theres good reasons why most people stick to the tried and tested. That's just spreading FUD. The Durso was designed to be quiet right? In my view (and obviously other peoples) it fails. Full syphons are tried and true, self regulating, and run more quiet than Dursos. They are also no more prone to "disaster" than Durso's. Layton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Which type do you have layton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Thanks Layton....The reason most people use DURSO's are because most people are not risk takers. They are followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 A photo wont cut it.....theres positioning and all sorts, plus safety etc. Stick with your durso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 It's effectively a full siphon. But it is a hacked together retrofit from several years ago. I'd go for a standard weir overflow with a pipe within it sticking straight up , then have a valve on the end of this. You tune the valve once so that the water level within the weir is a couple of cm above the level which causes air to be sucked in (IE create a full siphon in the stand pipe, then turn the value to raise the water level in the weir a few cm above this level). This then means as your return pump output varies, (either higher or lower) the head height in the weir varies, meaning that the output flow rate from the stand pipe increases and decreases in proportion. And there you have it a auto regulating system, which runs silently due to no air entering the overflow (air and water in overflow = noise). Layton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I see. So when there is increased head in the weir the pressure produces extra flow. When the water level aproaches the standing pipe it slows down due to lack of head, is this right? :-? This valve is just a standard ball valve? Why would your return pump output vary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I see. So when there is increased head in the weir the pressure produces extra flow. When the water level aproaches the standing pipe it slows down due to lack of head, is this right? :-? This valve is just a standard ball valve? Why would your return pump output vary? Yip, sounds like you got the idea. Just a normal ball valve (just used to change the effective cross-sectional area of the pipe) Why would your return pump output vary? Well because the power transmission system doesn't provide 240 Volts at 50 Hz. It provides something in that general region, pump output can drop over a period on months from debris and calcium buildup, heat can change output. It is not usually a significant change, but enough to cause an annoyance. Layton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Oh right, I see :lol: Just one thing what size of swing in water level are we talking (5cm, 10cm)? The standpipe should be about 3/4 the height of the weir as shown? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Well it depend how much margin for pump variation you want to build in. Personally I've never seen the level move more that a few cm either way. The height of the standpipe will depend on how much volume your return puts out, which will determine how high above the top of the stand pipe, the weir water level will have to be. So you'll need to experiment a bit with the height of the stand pipe to get a trade off between not having the water drop over the weir causing too much noise, and not having enough margin for variation in pump output, and room to create a full siphon, etc. I'm sure you could calculate some rough numbers to work out an estimate of the ideal stand pipe height, but my brain's in no state to go through that physics at the moment. ;-) Layton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Thanks for the info, I do need to do a bit of physics study anyway :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Heres an idea for all durso users, i came up with it as a way of reducing some of the gurgling noise. Instead of having a small hole to break the syphon in the top of the stand pipe, drill a bigger hole and push some plastic hose into it. I used some old filter fittings and some eheim hose, i think the hose was about 60ish cm long. You may have to play around with the hose size and length a little, depending on the flow, but it works a trick, it acts as a muffler. I prob cut the noise down by half, even though the durso wasnt to bad anyway, dont know if anyone has tried this but i would recommend giving it a go. Here is a pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 And there you have it a auto regulating system I'm sure this works fine until a snail/fish/stone/etc gets stuck in the ball valve. The point is you are restricting the flow, which has two affects, first you are increasing the likely hood that something will get caught at the restrictor, yes this could happen with a durso but is far less likely because there its far more likely that an object will get caught by a ball valve than a pipe reduction. And second you are reducing the margin of error if something does go wrong, the maximum amount of flow you can get is dictated by the smallest part of the plumbing. That's just spreading FUD. Rather than just making unquailifed statements can you please explain what is incorrect about what I said? I'm always willing to take on board correct information and learn from it. The Durso was designed to be quiet right? In my view (and obviously other peoples) it fails. I run two setups both with durso's, the DURSO's on both are very quite (nb: I didn't say silent), the noise I get is from the water going over the comb and the water exiting the down flow pipe, both of these you will still get with any other system. The reason some people have problems with durso's is because they cant read and follow instructions, they don't make them up correctly ie reduce the pipe size between the standpipe and the down flow, and they don't spend the time tuning them before they give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts