Dr.Felix Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 Hi everybody I find myself coming back here occassionally to sniff out the chat and found a post from pegasus on me so i thought id better say something. I come with 20 years experience in fish(started VERY young), built every tank i owned except my first. last personal tank - 1200 x 600d x 900h with custom built black lacquer stand & lid.sold it empty 10 yrs old for $1400(last year) mercury vapour 400w & 4 4ft aquaglo & - co2 setup, trickle filter discus cardinals rummy nose elephant nose black ghosts rams synodontis upside downcats zebra plecs hatchets and the plants - i was pounding in co2 until the spiral vall, crypts, amazons were out of the tank. At one point i couldnt prune fast enough and the plants would make it around the cover glass and burn themselves on the mh bulb by the next day!I put 2 pottles of jbl fertiliser in the substrate before i set it up!. that was after i pulled it down as the marine tank it was before - way early days 10 years ago - the lighting was 2 x 500w halogen floods and 6 x 3ft grolux!!!!i kept goniopora and some soft corals back then along with powder blues and polkadot groupers etc! i was 16 then!! :-? always built everything myself...in those days 10000K MH werent even born yet! started a few coldwater marine tanks 8 or so years ago too for fun and they were pretty cool.everything kept climbing out of the tanks tho... nowadays pretty content to muck around dont really have much to do with personal fish keeping per say- keep an eye/advisory/developmental role in an importing/wholesale/retail setup.wont say anymore bout that fish stuff still doing currently: make a few filters (fluidised beds yeah wet/dry )and uv sterilisers for people. build big tanks that dont break :lol: . interested in a lot of other things so dont have a lot of time to keep fish at home.plus i see so many that i just dont really feel i need to keep them ...however most of my friends want me to start one up again, coz they used to come round and sit in front of the tank for hours sorting out why that red tail black shark had That personality etc.... training - Ive finished my masters in synthetic organic chemistry so i suppose im a scientist. did a lot of bio, zoo and plant physiology too so i understand most facets of fresh/saltwater chemistry and aquatic plant maintenance. bit of existentialism, french and japanese to top it off!??! experienced mechanic and auto sparky (undergrad pocket money!).build/restore/customise cars 4 people.built/customise buildings/shops/houses. fix anything - but bit of a toolman taylor.like to do electrical & plumbing and spraypainting and design and electronics and weird stuff like that. bit of a perfectionist too. been considering churning out some decent fish tank units - the ones in the shops are soooooooo boring!im going to design something modern looking and not made from mdf :evil: weetbix! im must put that on my to do list. at the moment - shopfitting in northlands mall chch!. 1 big reef tank on the build! feel free to chat bout fish etc- ive bought,bred and lost my fair share over the years. but i cant guarantee when i check back here - usually happens when my brain rolls over and i have to think fishy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 Great post Dr Felix, glad I inspired you Sounds like you can be a lotta help around here. Ever thought of the triple unit tank with the waterfall in the centre... looks pretty neat, and I have a few requests to build a prototype or there's one with a water bridge running between two tanks... also pretty neat. Hope to read more of your exploits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 not made from mdf :evil: weetbix! Oh no, don't say that!!!!!! Whats wrong with mdf? Do you mean its not strong enough? Or it just goes bung when it gets wet? I (well my father and I) have just finished making the base to my 8'3" tank. It wsa made out of 18mm mdf, and the tray where it is going to sit has been polyurethaned. I do not want it to get wet and expand like the current one has in places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I hope its not made exclusively from weetbix (I mean MDF). It should have a lot of 4x2 solid-wood ribs / bulkheads. If not it will probably support the weight ok but will not survive an earthquake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I hope its not made exclusively from weetbix Basically yeah. The only bits that are wood are the support struts under the base that separate thebase and the carpet. Its a veritable mdf brick shit house, so it will definately hold the weight. Don't tell me I've done it wrong, I have put a lot of money and time into it. If not it will probably support the weight ok but will not survive an earthquake. Well I don't live in Napier do I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Yeah, but how much time did you spend planning before all the money and effort went into making it????? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 About 3 or 4 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Felix Posted May 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 finish the unit INSIDE and out in mirotone 2 pot paint or equivalent. the inside just about matters more than outside. its those 10drips that go down the back of the glass that make the mdf bulge and turn to nice exploded pinex weetbix that supports a nice coating of sugar and not much else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I hope you realise I'm not trying to crap all over what you've done. You have a fairly big tank that probably weighs well over 1500kg. I've got a tank that weighs 2300kg and went to a lot of trouble doing the calculations for loading... If it is not done right you will end up with a disaster. 18mm MDF is not very strong on its own. Do the support struts you mentioned go across the bottom of the tank as well as vertically for supporting the weight? MDF is very good at stiffening a cuboid type wooden frame but MDF to MDF screwed joints are very weak. If water should ever get on them they will be weaker still. To give you some idea of the strength required for an 8' tank, this is what I've setup (from engineering calculations): Tank Size: 2400(L) x 820(W) x 650(H) Tank Volume: 1200L approx Tank Weight: 300kg (Empty) Stand Weight: 400kg (remember the stand has to support it own weight too) Water Weight: 1200kg Gravel Weight: 800kg Total Tank: 2300kg Total Inc Stand: 2700kg The bottom of the stand is 3 x 25mm MDF sheets. Sitting on this are 5 ribs / bulkheads made from 150x50 Pine. Each rib has 3 vertical members 150x50 in size held by 4 100x50 nail plates at each end, connecting to 150x50 top and bottom runners (front to back). On top of the ribs are 6 equally space 100x50 runners running full length of the frame (side to side). On top of that is 3 x 25mm sheets of 25mm MDF. Wrapped around the whole frame is 18mm MDF just to give some lateral stiffness. There are approx 120 100x50 nails plates, 100 Z nails and 500 No10x75mm speed screws holding it together. To test it I put a 25 mm block under one corner of the stand and filled the tank with water. This effectively loaded the stand with 100% of the weight across its diagonal. Had the stand not been stiff enough the twisting force would have broken the tank. It was so strong however that it was possible to rock the whole stand from side to side, pivoting across its diagonal. There was only a 1mm twist in the frame. It does not matter if you live somewhere where earthquakes are present. If a stand cannot support lateral force then at some stage there will be a disaster (pancaked stand). It is better to find out before it happens than risk losing everything. Tanks and stands are replaceable at least, - not so with your favorite fish. I'm only trying to help after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 I had just finished reading this post when we had a short sharp earthquake!! I don't think I will read this thread again :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 It is paainted with 2 or 3 good coats of water based acrylic, which I was promised by the woman that sold it o us wouyld be water proof in 3 or 4 weeks. (It has been sitting for 5 or 6 weeks now, and likely a few more untill the tank gets built.) The Tray that the tank sits in has been coated in 2 or 3 coats of poyyurethane to make it water proof. I will post a picture of the supports later, as I have to go out now. BTW I can't get this feeling of dread out of my stomach (thinking it might not do the trick) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 The paint will seal it ok. Pics would be good. You've probably done fine with the design but pics will make sure. If you can get some that specifically show the support members it would be good. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Hopefully this works. My webshot pictures havn't been wanting to attach to forums recently. Sorry no photos, as I don't have a digital camera. This is a drawing of the whole thing, as it will be made. This is a drawing of the supports as you would see them looking from the ceiling to the floor. Measurements are in mm, and the measurements on the right hand side are a mirror image of the ones on the left. The front of the cabinet is the side with the 2500mm measurement on it, and there are two doors on the two left compartments, and two on the right hand compartments. The middle one is just a panel. The second compartment from the left and the right has a shelf about 2/3 of the way up from the top. This is a drawing of the base and its supports that will be built behind the skirting on the very bottom of the cabinet (see drawing 1). The support section in drawing 2 will be sitting ontop of a sheet of mdf that will sit ontop of the supports in drawing 3 (have I lost you yet? ) The grey bits are the matrix that has been built out of 2x4 wood (the only wood component of the structure. They are positioned in an off centre manner so that they can basically be screwed in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Argh dammit. Just visit my Sig to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Interesting design. It is going to look really good once the tanks is in place and full of water. With the tank being only 450mm wide you will probably have 600-700L in it. Total weight will probably be 1100-1300kg depending on how much gravel you put in. The question you need to ask yourself now is; do you think the stand would support your car if it was gently placed on top of it with a crane? This is about the equivalent weight. Even though it is a little lightweight, it looks like it will hold. How many screws are there in the back panel that hold the vertical uprights in place? I take it the vertical sections are 18mm MDF? Do the 2x4's screw under the top MDF panel (directly below the tank)? I have some suggestions that will significantly increase the strength at very little extra cost. If I've understood the plan correctly, they will be very easy to fit also. Do you have a fax I can send a sketch to. Send the details to my personal email. How long until the tank is setup? I hope we will see some pics on your site too? W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 My 2 cents worth, 20yrs as a builder and 5yrs as a cabinet maker. Your construction while a little unusual, will easily hold the weight of a car. Mdf on its edge has incredible compressive strength. Just remember the whole thing is only going to be as good as what it sits on, ie. your floor. You haven't made any mention of that yet. Is it wooden, or concrete? If it is wooden, then there may be some more things to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Its concrete. So there's nothing to worry about there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Sheila Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 It must be strong enough, beacause the 4 foot tank I bought from Pet City has only 2 t shaped supports under it (and its made of weetbix). This one is twice the length with 3 times the number of supports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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