tel Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 covered in white coralline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 day 4 since filling up for the 1st time. sand to invade after cycle complete. my skimmers going nuts..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 ive actually got purple coralline and brown diatonimous going...seems incredibly early for that, esp coralline, but its increasing every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 ive actually got purple coralline it wont be coralline, more like cyno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 If you leave the lights off, it will stop any algae getting to the crap in the rocks as the bacteria push it out. It will speed up the cycle, and minimise or avoid algae growth while the rocks are cleaning up. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 One thing i have noticed that when setting tanks up is that they cycle quicker when you have lights on. maybe have the lights on for a few hours a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 I disagree. The bacteria you rely on for the cycling to happen don't need light at all. Algae does. Without light, you have the bacteria without competition from algae. With light you have bacteria competing with algae. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Maybe the light helps other organisims which aid in cycling, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'm not very experienced with this only cycled a few times but have tried lights on, and lights off. There seems to be a different type of skimmate with lights on I think it's because with lights on, as nutrients enter the water column they can be sequestered by unicelled algae or other photosynthetic floating organisms which can then be skimmed. However Layton does have a point that allowing algae to grow on the rock is going to retain some nutrients. What I did a few months ago when I cycled some rock was try to get the best of both worlds, piling up the rock at one end of the tank, and lit the other end to try & provide light for floating phosphate munching organisms. Don't really know if it worked but it didn't do any harm and the rocks stayed nice & white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 i like your approach wasp, try it out yourself and see the results rather than believe everything you read in a text book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 whoohoo, 1st sign of purple so nitrite registering for the 1st time. pretty tame for all you experienced reefers i spose . decided to leave lights off and that has arrested any more algie growth. lights in pic are t5s intended for my sump so id better get serious about some replacements, needed in about 5ish weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 If you leave the lights off over the next two or three weeks you should notice a lot of detritus come out of the rocks. This is the sign that denitrifying bacteria are starting to do their thing. They will clean the base rock of a lot phosphate, which will mean there should be less potential for issues with algae in the future. Blow the rocks down with a powerhead, and siphon out any piles which collect. I'd be keeping BB during this process it's easier to remove the stuff because you can see it. You can always add sand after it's finished. It's pretty amazing to see the crap that comes out of dry base rock even without any fish and coral in the tank. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 exactly why im keeping the sand out till the end. i waterblasted them well before adding . they smelt a fair bit and i thought staying bare would maybe cook them abit in the tank??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 can you explain the ''cooking'' process and will it work in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 It's simply the bacteria coming back to life within the rock, once the rock is put in water. They begin to consume dead waste that is in the pores of the rock, and the sheer volume of bacteria creates more mass and forces matter out of the rock, it has a sandy appearance on the bottom of the tank but in fact a lot of it is dead bacteria jammed together. It is rich in phosphate and should be syphoned. In addition released phosphate will enter the water colum, hence the best possible skimming should be used during rock curing. Once the rock stops shedding, and assuming the water has been kept relatively phosphate free, your rocks are as clean as you are going to get, and give you a head start in running an algae free tank as they will not leach a lot of nasties into your water. Not everyones going to agree fully with this but here's some different perspectives on rock curing, crud cleaning, etc. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... enumber=4g, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 it would be good to know what people did to their rock when they first started and what they may change if doing now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Tried a few different ways, the very best results have been from curing rock in the rock pools at our local beach, I think it's because they get a 100% water change daily, they come out smelling sweet. Next best way is what you're doing, in a clean tank with BB to allow crud removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Oh no, not Dr Ron! I don't think i'll comment there, I might get into trouble "Cooking" will work in a tank. In fact there is no way to avoid it. The process happens in every tank, all of the time. Basically you have bacteria within the rock. This bacteria consumes as much phosphate as it can (exactly the same way that bacteria in a sand bed does) http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/66/12/5236 Microorganisms involved in this process are capable of phosphate uptake in excess of their metabolic requirements and store phosphate internally as polyphosphate (polyP) polymers. Because there is a small finite amount of space in the rock, as the bacteria multiply, they are push out of the rock, taking with them the phosphate they have accumulated. The bacteria keep pushing themselves out, each time leaving less and less phosphate in the rock. This continues until an equilibrium is reached with water levels and available levels of phosphate in the rock. The reason why this is done in the dark, is so that algae can not intercept the phosphate and slow down the bacterial access to it. Also, the cooking process is often done in buckets cause it's easier to "swish" the detritus out of the rocks, and them get rid of it. It might take a bit longer in a tank, as the process depends a lot on keeping the surrounding water clean. I would never setup a tank without cooking the rock after having seen the process happen in my tank (At the time, I hadn't even heard of rock cooking!) Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 so would it be best to just continue in tank untill shedding slows or stops, while doing good sized water changes? sounds like it could take quite awhile?? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Yeah I'd just leave it in the tank, but blow it down regularly, and keep the water, and bottom clean. It can be one of those "how longs a piece of string" things, it depends how much stuff was living on the rock when it was dried, and also where the rock came from, some are naturally higher in phosphate than others. Once shedding slows down, you know it's done. Just watch your alkalinity during the time it's cooking, the bacteria processes demand a lot of carbon, which means alkalinity can drop like a rock. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Just one thing to add to that though, for the rock to cycle ( become stocked with all the needed nitrate cycle bacteria ) takes around 6 weeks. For the rock to stop or slow down shedding, can take many months. Most people want to start stocking their tank, this can be done once the cycle is completed, don't have to wait till the rock stops shedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 "Cooking" will work in a tank. In fact there is no way to avoid it. The process happens in every tank, all of the time. True, you can even see it in my tank. i aquascaped the left side of my tank and had the LR 'settling in' for about 4-5 months before I got around to even looking at the right side. Alot of the right side LR I bought and added afterwards. The 'quality' of the LR on left vs right side is quite significantly different. Left side has plenty of coralline, no build up of detritus and no algae on rocks; overall it looks really good. The right side is somewhat different though, the rock is more full of crud, algae and detritus build up (although over the past couple of months is noticeably improving and looking more like the left side). Its the same lighting over the whole tank and obviously same water conditions Only difference is the time its had to 'cook' I guess, I do remember having similar algae problems on left side as I have on right side now. Time will tell I guess. As you say, it seems logical that the "cooking" process is always happening. Im assuming that cooking rocks outside of the tank is done purely to speed up the process because its easier to suck the crap that is shed from the rocks? Any other reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 As you say, it seems logical that the "cooking" process is always happening. Im assuming that cooking rocks outside of the tank is done purely to speed up the process because its easier to suck the crap that is shed from the rocks? Any other reason? Nope, that's pretty much the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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