LionOfZion Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hey everybody, Im at the initial planning stages of building a cold water marine reef tank (or probably a glorified rock pool), in which I wish to keep native critters. Basically to cut costs as Im sure I'll kill a few things until I fully understand the in and outs. Eventually I plan to have mainly shell fish, anonmoes, plants, and probably a sea horses. I have managed to spend several hundreds dollars so far and still have skimmers, powerheads and working out a cooler to go. Although I figure by the time I get the tank cycling it will be winter and I can build the cooler before next summer. I been searching through forums including this one and still have a few unanswered questions: Firstly, NZ live rock/cold water live rock - What is the best option for live rock in this situation? Is deep water rocks better than stuff I can get from the shore lines ? same goes for sand aswell. Ive read articles about DYI rock but would preferr the natural stuff if I could. NZ Coral - I done abit of reading but havent found much info on NZ coral. Is there any good resource sites, or places to visit (Im in the wellington region). I'm planning to have my dive cert in the next few weeks so I can go out and collecting things if need be. Collecting critters - how to get sea anonmoes and stuff off rocks without hurting them. Ive thought of leaving rocks in places where things grow and hoping stuff migrates onto them home, but is there a better method ? - I was also inspecting plants growing in rock pools and the didnt seem to have much of a root system. Has anyone colelcted plants and moved them into a tank ? The Law - I haven't done any reading on this at all yet. But are there guidelines or laws I need to check with MAF over about collecting native species. I'd hate to accidentally take a few things which are illegal to harvest and then have my expensive equipment confiscated Is there anyone else doing a cold water reef tank in a reasonable ditance from wellington that I could visit and ask questions and stuff. (or if anyone knows a cheap way to get across the straight so I can visit the aquarium in picton). Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 for aesthetics i owuld reccomend using rock found in the natural habitat to decorate the rock but i would have porous coral rock in the sump to act as biological filtration. getting anemone's etc off rocks could be tricky, i would give briank a pm he has some cold water tanks and has had some stunning specimen's and might be able to give some advice. i good skimmer is important as is a chiller to maintain temp (or an aircon room) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 We had a rock pool marine running for a couple of years and it was the most interesting tank we've ever had. We had to give it up though as we did not have a chiller and the tank kept getting too hot. All we did was take some containers down the Kaikoura coast and gather up rocks and sea water. We also caught as many critters from the pools as we could, brought them all home and put them in a 3ft tank. This tank had an AquaClear running off it and no other equipment. Critters in there were anemones (prised gently off rocks with flat edged knife - or try to get a small rock with anemones on it so you can take rock and anemone), chitons, triplefins, rockfish, hermit crab, starfish, cushionstars, brittlestars, shrimps, sea cucumbers and, at one point, an octopus. Critters were fed sea lettuce every now and then but nothing else. Lots of microscopic stuff would come in on the lettuce. Seaweed won't live. Nothing died and the shrimps reproduced. Since there is no coral in that region, our tank didn't have any. Live rock isn't necessary in a rock pool either. We never had a skimmer, powerheads or any other equipment and it was never required. I imagine there will be a difference in the needs of a reef compared to a rockpool though. As far as the law goes, I believe it is illegal to collect undersized paua and crayfish and a lot of the bigger marine fish but anything else in a rockpool is fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hey LionofZion, the rock that have seen around NZ coast line isn't porous at all - even if it has been drilled by barnicles ect - it has nothing on the coral base rock I purchased. The local rock is good for decoration, and will probably be good to help cycle the tank though. I would suggest buying base rock and chucking it in the sea - if you dive that would be perfect. From what I've seen rock pool animals are ridiculously tough - the napier aqaruim has a hands on tank - and they are all fine. Its the more delicate organisms will need coral rock for filtration ect, and normal NZ rock cant do that. (from the stuff I've found). I could sell you some home-made LR :lol: I'll post some pics when I finally haul it from the sea. As for getting crays and paua - someone sells them on trademe - and they arent too expensive - ~$20 or less I think. I'm gonna have a pet cray in the sump. You might be able to grow seaweed ect - but you will need proper lighting - just as a normal reef tank would, which means big power bills and a bigger setup cost. I saw an amazing staghorn coral in a NZ dive book - bright pink looked real cool, wouldnt have a clue where to get stuff like that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 when i dived the rainbow warrior i remember i was impressed at the various marine life growing on it, shame i had no idea what it all was at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetom Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I'm having a similar thought, approx. 150L 3ft tank, was going to run a aquaclear 500, (serious overkill) and have it outside. I live fairly close to the harbour to the atmoshpere should be similar to taka rock pools. I figured outside the natural light would be heaps. more algae and more clean but heaps less money i.e. none Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 was going to run a aquaclear 500, (serious overkill) nope, i dont think overkill is possible on most peoples budgets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfZion Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Does anyone know if the deep water rocks are more porous than the shore side ones? With NZ being a mainly composed of volcanoes I would guess that there must be porous sea rock around the coast lines. I seriously doubt you could overkill a rock pool tank, the pounding that some pools get is amazing, I went out to Island bay in the weekend to see what was available on the shore line there and I swear the weathor was to rough for me, let alone the poor sea fauna. Probably why they are so hardy aswell. But if Im forking out money I might aswell try and get the best critters I can get Another question is how much current can a seahorse take? part of the reason I was interested in sea weed was for seahorses to hide in (at a later stage ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 No New Zealand rock is coral rock so isn't suitable for live rock. The only options are to buy imported live rock or make some as per feelers. Seahorses don't like much current and are also very slow feeder which makes having fish etc in the tank as well a problem. If you are able to collect water and store some for those bad weekends you can get away with out live rock, you would just have to do large weekly water changesand have a very low bioload Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 From the little I know on seahorses - they are scared/harrassed easily by other fish, and are generally put in species only tanks. They also have a digestive system that is basicially "in one end out the other"- . Meaning that they need to be fed more than once a day (well optimally anyway) and thus they create a huge amount of waste for their size. When you consider the cost of a chiller base rock isnt that expensive, it will make the tank more interesting, and give you some aquascaping options. I can pour water through my base rock, and my home-made stuff - It's like a seive. I have never seen any rock do that before, not even pumice can let water go right through it. Definately has a huge surface area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtman Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 hiya LionOfZion i have a coldwater setup,its got lotz of cool things in it,im out in wainui,ur welcome to come take a look. im going away tomo to wanganui til monday,but anytime after thens cool. ive had it running for about a year or so now,and experimented with differnt inhabitants,i dive too or snorkle sumtimes,realy easy to get heaps of stuff photos crap,it looks way diff than that. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hey Newtman that tanks cool! Are you running a Chiller? What do you have in there? Are there any pics a little more zoomed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 With a cold water marine do you need to have a night light for them? Or any other form of specail lightening? I got me a new tank today (second hand but it was free for trade of guppies ) and so far it has only cost me a tube of silicon to reseal the insides as it was lifting. I often hear about moonlight. Is this required and if so what bulb are you looking for? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Unless you want to grow seaweed and aglae ect no lighting is required - I dont think anything in the rock pools would be photosynthectic - (perhaps anemones?, although I think the ones here arent). That means that you can put any light you want, . I would choose a cheap flourscent that you like the colour of- low cost and low power. The moonlighting thing is just to look cool, I'm gonna use LED's for my ones. If you were intending to grow seaweed ect, you'd have to work out your lighting, based on depth, bulb wattage ect. This would make a big increase in the cost of the system - both initially and in power usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtman Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 thanks feelers!,yea ill get some up in a min. i use a blue moon tube(standard blue fluro) so its allways night li guess lol,only because i have been too lazy to bother getting a haliade bulb fo my fittings i have. in it currently i have: -coraline covered rocks -beach gravel -two internal circulation pumps -an extarnal eheim cnaisterfilter -assorted crabs and hermit crabs -ghost shrimp -about 3 ducks bill sea slugs -limpits and snails n things -a few britle stars i removed all the fish a couple a days ago,because i was wanting different specimens,so i returend them to the sea. i had quite a few tripplefins and a olive green rockfish,i want to get about 5-6 blue eyed tripplefins to go in there,aparently there are heaps around the F-69 atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtman Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 this 1s a bit closer feelers,still crap tho lol,need a better camera :lol: ...oh and no i dont run a chiller,everything seems to handle a temp of about 23-25 deg c, so im quite supprised its all alive and doing fine,the temp fluxuates with the house. ...oh and a cheap way accros the strait :lol: :lol: :lol: ..... ummm...how good are ya at swimmin lion :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfZion Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Thanks guys that been quite helpfull, I don't think I'll be swimming the channel any time soon though Ive been talking to the store store in Petone and am probably going to start sitting my dive cert next week. After that I'll probably start checking the deeper areas for stuff to full my tank. The live rock thing however is still playing on the back of my mind. I might hold off making any decisions till Ive talked to a few divers and asked them what they think. I know that there is a reef of sorts off out from mercury bay in the coromandel, my dad goes diving out there regulary so I might ask him to investigate. Also Ive seen coral skeletons in people gardens over the years that Im sure I get off them, I take it this would be perfect live rock for 'curing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 to live by the beach hmmmm free salt water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Have a scan on Trademe, sometimes base rock pops up - I got about 12 kgs for $40. Last week I saw 15kg of live rock go for $61. I would have bought it - but I'm not in Canterbury A sea urchin would be cool - would it survive? I know that crays wont survive without a chiller. Didnt someone here have a pet crayfish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfZion Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Theres a guy who sells baby cray fish on trade me, I thought about putting on in the tank but it would eat eatthing else so I quickly changed my mind. I think sea urchins eat sea weed so you would have to have a ready supply of something they could eat. I suppose you could collect some of the larger kelp, chop it up and freeze it. Or even the smalelr stuff ti I suppose. But I know there is laws governing taking stuff from the shore, I know rock and sand is illegal to collect, but Im not sure how far that stretches. I'll have a browse through the MAF website in the weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 yeah after seeing what a crayfish eats has put me off getting one - I wouldnt want it to get big either. Perhaps you could feed sea urchins the seaweed that you get to make sushi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfZion Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 has anyone been to the milford deep underwater observatory ? http://www.milforddeep.co.nz/gallery.htm thats the gallery for the place, real nice local native coral and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Does anyone know if black coral can be kept? A snakestar would be cool. Apparantly the Sounds area isnt a marine reserve - so if you can dive there you could get some awesome things. There are some real cool snakestars, - but I've never seen a picture of one that wasnt curled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfZion Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 does anyone have links to any sites with info on NZ coral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 That underwater lab is great! I believe black coral is protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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