lmk Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi.I'm new to the fnzas site , but in the past have used it for some general info on the fish I keep. Now I need some EXPERT HELP!! I have 2 pairs of beautiful breeding Angels and I have tried numerous ways of raising the young over the last 2-3 months with no success. Tried leaving eggs in community tank with parents, they were eaten over a few days. Have twice tried rearing the babies in a separate tank on their own but at 10 days after hatch, all the babies were dead!! (small water changes had been done each day, food only added when fry were freeswimming at 5 days, small corner filter used) Last hatch I put parents and babies into a seperate tank and interaction between parents and young was AMAZING to watch!! But once again, got to the 10 day mark and babies started "skittering" on the bottom of tank and by the end of the day (TODAY!!) all were dead!! What am I doing wrong?? Really need help with this as the same pair look ready to lay again, so I have left them in the breeding tank to do their thing, hopefully with more luck this time Also have NEW baby Bolivian Rams (1 day old today) Thats another LONG breeding story with no success, think I will be spending a lot of time here asking for advice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 What are you feeding them? They need baby brine shrimps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi LMK, Welcome to the NZ Fishroom Definitely sound like a food prob.. and as Caryl says.. Baby Brine Shrimp is the only "real" food to get them over the first month. You say: I put parents and babies into a seperate tank and interaction between parents and young was AMAZING to watch!! This is the way to go if poss.. as it truly is amazing.. no matter how many times you see it This might help. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/the-no ... vt929.html Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmk Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi Caryl and Pegasus Have fed babies on JBL Nobil Fluid - Artemia.Fry certainly appeared to be feeding well on the tiny "bits" in it - 3-4 times a day. (This Has dried brine shrimp in it) Tried raising brine shrimp prior to my Angels hatching with no success. My LFS suggested this as other breeders had raised their babies on it. Do you think that the live brine shrimp is the only way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 As they said, it really is the only way to go. Microworms are another choice for fish that are willing to bottom feed such as blue rams. Good luck with the baby rams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmk Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi. Blueandkim :)Should my LFS have the microworms?( they seem to stock everything else) I trade on TM site and I have seen white worms sold are these similar or totally different?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi. Blueandkim :)Should my LFS have the microworms?( they seem to stock everything else) I trade on TM site and I have seen white worms sold are these similar or totally different?? hi LMK, yes you are right, white worms are totally different, these are not suitable for small frys. what you need is live critters that will fit into tiny frys mouth. microworms is good, but you need a culture to start off with, sometimes sold on TM, or you probably can ask someone here to send you a culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Yup, shiuh covered it. White worms are for adult fish. Microworms are tiny (therefore the micro). As for your LFS having cultures it's really unlikely but worth checking. If you have no lck getting any, PM me and I can start a culture for you. Takes a little while to get going though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 When I was breeding angels we used to call the problem " belly sliders" and is caused by the temperature being too low. Keep the parents away and the fry cannot get eaten and raise the temperature. Feed microworm and brine shrimp as soon as the fry start swarming. I had best luck with bare tanks, airation and frequent water changes. Siphon excess food off the bottom each day and use a pilot light at night to keep them feeding continuously. Baby cories do well raised in the same tank and help to clean up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiuh Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 oops. sorry blue, i took your question there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmk Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Thanks for all of the advice!! My pair have laid more eggs this evening so I will definitely try and get a culture for the microworms and I'm also going to try the brine shrimp breeding again. Also had it suggested to me that the problem could be with the parents, possibly they need to be fed on some "Good" food (once again live food) to bring them into better breeding condition. Not sure on this but anything is worth a try as it's so upsetting when you see all those babies dying. Will update later to let you all know how I get on. So far, so good with the Rams. Mum & dad are neat to watch shifting their brood all around the tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmk Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Baby update: Lost all the baby Bolivian Rams!! My own fault really as I have them in a tank with another pair of breeding Angels who I guess got hungry and had a munch Shame really as they were very cute , oh well 8 days is better than I've managed in the past. I have even tried dividing off the tank with some extra large plants but the Angels are VERY territorial and still swoop through the plants and attack the Adult Rams even though they're minding their own business. I would separate them completely but that would mean adding ANOTHER tank and I don't think hubby would like that!! This pairs babes are now 6 days old and freeswimming. Other pair of Angels in separate tank have babies 7 days old. Managed to get microworm culture but don't seem to be able to SEE anything in it, I'm told this is normal. Hopefully I'll be able to feed the babes on the worms soon. No luck with the Brine shimp, Again!!. Will update again later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hi IMK, Good to hear you at least have a "true" pair of Angels.. as sometimes two females will lay a clutch.. but of course they won't hatch. You say: Managed to get microworm culture but don't seem to be able to SEE anything in it, I'm told this is normal. Hopefully I'll be able to feed the babes on the worms soon. No luck with the Brine shimp, Again!!. Will update again later Microworms are a bit funny in some ways.. and you have to "really" look close to see the slight movement on the surface of the mixture. If you got them from a reliable source, then the mixture should be quite runny.. but not watery.. if you follow.. and if you look closely on the sides of the container you will see movement. If you put a small raft in the mixture.. or an ice pop stick and leave it for a while, the worms will climb out onto this for easy feeding. Brine Shrimp. Many people have probs hatching BS.. but it really is a simple task provided the eggs (cysts) are fresh and not been allowed to deteriate. There are many posts with full instruction on the site here if you use the search feature at the head of the page.. (the site one.. not the Google one) Time for another tank I think, as the babies are better if they are reared in bare bottomed tanks, which makes things easier for cleaning and water changes. Hope things go well Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmk Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 AAAHHHH!!!! It happened again! :evil: Bang on 10 days both hatchings of baby Angels dead! Fed on microworms, which they seemed to like (those wee things are AMAZING!!) also had a low wattage light set up at night so the babies were feeding constantly. Seperate breeding tank is a bare bottom tank so it's easy to do those small water changes. Babies were once again free swimming around the tank with Mum and Dad and all seemed good. But at that 10 day mark all were dead. Something I've been thinking about is, what sort of levels should I be monitoring for in my tanks? I've never really done this other than p.h levels (we are on rain water and p.h remains constant and I hardly ever loose a fish. The other thing I have been told is that everything must be just right in the water otherwise the fish wouldn't be breeding so much!!) But if you are breeding fish is there anything in particular to be checking?? Rams and Angels in separate tank look close to laying AGAIN!!!! This is starting to drive me MAD!! I really need to have some success soon or I'm going to give up hope completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Hi again, You say: Bang on 10 days both hatchings of baby Angels dead Are they actually dead.. (can you see them on the bottom of the tank..?).. or have they just disappeared...? what sort of levels should I be monitoring for in my tanks Rainwater is fine.. that's all I ever use. The sponge filter should keep the water good enough for the couple of weeks that you might want to leave them together. All pairs are different... and some you can go in there and clean up the tank with no probs.. while others will consume the whole batch at the slightest disturbance.. which applies to many Cichlids. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Really sorry to hear that you have lost your Angel Bubbies again, I have Angel fry at the moment, they still at the wriggler stage at the moment, thinking about putting them into a 2ft tank by themselves tomorrow before they become free swimming, M&D doing a great job, but after reading your post I'm abit worried that the same thing will happen to mine round the 10 day mark. It seems like you doing all the right things, do hope you get the problem sorted before the next spawn. Will let you know how it all goes, best I keep me fins crossed I think. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmk Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi Lynda! Thanks for your support. I've been following your threads with interest as ANY hints I pick up will help. Hope all goes well with your babes My pair laid AGAIN last night and they seem to think that more eggs is better this time as just about the entire filter tube (yes I have that problem too!!) is smothered in eggs! From all the advice I've had it truly looks like the brine shrimp are the way to go. So I'm back to my LFS today to grab some eggs. Hopefully I'll have more luck with the hatching side of things. Also tempted to remove M & D a few days after hatch (don't think they'll be very impressed!) but at least it will eliminate the possibility that they are eating some. I'm doing the small water changes daily so I don't see that as a problem as has been suggested. One question on feeding babies, I had been feeding 3-4 times a day, is this enough? Will update later, hopefully with some GOOD news Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Hi Lisa, I have been advised to feed 3 times a day. How do you do water changes without sucking up the fry? Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 How do you do water changes without sucking up the fry? I use the normal type garden hose with a piece of coarse mesh over the end which is held in place with a rubber band. The odd one or two investigate.. but usally you can flick them off before the suction takes hold.. I also bend the hose with the other hand so that I can fold it to stop the suction in the event of getting a fish stuck on the end Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I used to use a longish piece of air hose and a piece of straight wire a little less than the water depth. Wrap the airhose around the wire a few times to make it semi rigid. I made a little circle in the wire at the bottom and put the air hose through it. This makes it almost straight and easy to use. Then suck on the air hose and slowly move it across the bottom. Gets a lot of stuff up without a lot of water loss and easier to see where the babies are. I did put a little bit of old stocking over the end but found it just as easy without. I did suck up the occasional babies but I just scooped them out of the bucket and put them back in the tank. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 If you are feeding microworm you may be adding the media along with the worms. This will cause a bacterial bloom and polute the water. I feed a lot of microworm and I culture it in 2 litre icecream containers-- one coming,one going and one at peak production. If you roughen the sides of the container with fine sandpaper the worms will climb up and leave the media behind, and you will get straight worms. You will have to lower the water level to encourage the fry to feed off the bottom. I clean the bottom with a piece of rigid plastic tube and the hose joined to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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