CanadaReef Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 Hi, I have red slime in my tank and am trying to remove, I have red that you can use potassium permanganate to lower the dissolved organic level in the tank's water. Does any one know the concentration of potassium permanganate solution I should use, and the amount? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 i have read that effective skimming is the most effective way of removing DOC from the water. i would reccomend good quality water changes, RO/DI topoff and a good amount of water movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 I had a search for permanganate on RC, didn't find anything appart from this: Very high redox implies one is adding oxidizers (bleach, permanganate, ozone, etc), and those will oxidize all organics, including organism tissues that it burns. I know from chemistry that its pretty nuts stuff - if it were an easy fix to algae I'm sure there would be a thread on RC. It does seem to be used in freshie tanks, but since everyone here is very careful about correct levals of Calcium, Phospherous ect, adding manganeese ions might screw something up? DOSAGE: 1 level teaspoon per 600 gallons. this is for a pond, which can obviously handle harsher treatment than a reef tank. After adding you are supposed to do a 50% water change. The more I read it sounds like its a no-go. Apparantly it will kill all your bacterial population too, so dont put it in!!! well, at least until one of "those in the know" says it ok. 8) btw : Had a fun experience with this stuff - on Blossom Parade day in Hastings my friends and I (unofficially) made the huge fountain in the town centre go a lovely pink colour , it was quite a hit with the crowd. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 Get a better skimmer and improve the water quality. Cyno means you have too much nutrients in your tank.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 Agree with the above. Would NOT recommend the potasium permangenate. A highly powered skimmer will do wonders. Other than that, have good flow, and syphon it relentlessly, it will grow back but just keep at it if you have a good skimmer you will eventually win. Don't overfeed. But if you have a poorly performing skimmer you may never beat it. I have heard more reefers give up the hobby because of cyano bacteria than any other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 I was reading an "oldskool" reefing book, and there was a tank with quite a nice selection of various green algaes, I thought it actually looked pretty cool, the rest of the tank was pretty crap though. Are there any "macro algae" based "reef tanks" floating around out there, like that "shrine to coraline" thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 So why does my tank with high nitrates not have it and did not have it when phosphate were off the chart, yet another tank with no nitrate or phosphate has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 It is a living organism. If it is not present it cannot grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 some tanks get it others don't. why? very good question!! it seems to pop up during the changes of seasons so may be dependent on certain light spectrums to get kick started? maybe the redox has something to do with it as well? it also seems to be selfsufficant when it comes to food sources. i would say that most tanks have it present at all times but do not have a noticable outbreak at all or its very limited. while others get the full force of it. will nutrient control prevent it i don't believe so. (seen it on many reefs, its just a natural ugly occurance IMO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 So why does my tank with high nitrates not have it and did not have it when phosphate were off the chart, yet another tank with no nitrate or phosphate has it? it's typically a combination of factors that can cause it. first and foremost being fuelled by high nutrients (so get a good skimmer), poor or inadequate lighting and most commonly overlooked, poor water flow (why? because cyano is photosynthetic - a tank oversaturated in carbon dioxide assisted by high lighting for energy will fuel it). higher water temperatures can assist in its growth (as well as most bad algaes) too so ensure you stick around 25 degrees. Upgrade your tank in these areas and overtime it will disappear. In the meantime, try and physically remove as much as possible (you should be able to 'peel' it off rocks and sand). dont brush it off or it will spread it more. dont dose additives to kill it, treat the cause not the symptom or it will just come back. Get your water conditions spot on so good algaes (like coralline) can 'outcompete' it so get your ph, ca and alk spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 some tanks get it others don't. why? very good question!! it seems to pop up during the changes of seasons so may be dependent on certain light spectrums to get kick started? maybe the redox has something to do with it as well? it also seems to be selfsufficant when it comes to food sources. i would say that most tanks have it present at all times but do not have a noticable outbreak at all or its very limited. while others get the full force of it. will nutrient control prevent it i don't believe so. (seen it on many reefs, its just a natural ugly occurance IMO) Have to agree here..... My tank has zero phosphate and nitrate. (Salifert). But I am still riddled with cyano...... My tank is running 2 x large streams, (heaps of current) Plus 2 x Deltec 1250 turbo skimmers which are running great. No dead spots at all. Acros are awesome...It only grows on the sand. some rocks are still new, but am still a bit annoyed. If not gone in a couple of months, I will become an enraged reef demon!! :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 iv only ever had cyano when i had flat worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 My tank has zero phosphate and nitrate. (Salifert). ... It only grows on the sand. That's interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 lol go on say it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 It just seems to be consistent with all those scientist and papers on how sand beds work that's all. That's both parts, ie the low water soluble phosphate / nitrate, as well as the cyano on the sand part too. Cyano fixes nitrogen gas, so doesn't require nitrates to grow, it needs phosphate, and what better place to get it than a phosphate storing sand bed. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Dunno yet...could be possible. am trying another approach at the moment. Why would the p04 in the sand bed not leach into the water column? Ive just syphoned it twoce in the last week. You'd think that would pull out all the crap. There is no reason po4 would store in the sandbed and not the rock, Its the same material. BUT...I am running half aragonite... could it be that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Why would the p04 in the sand bed not leach into the water column? It does eventually, that's how sand beds work, they start off oxygenated. The bacteria builds up within it, absorbing phosphate, but then when the suboxic / oxic boundary moves closer to the surface it starts to leach. Oxygen changes, pH, and temperature are all known to trigger the release cycle of sediments. This cycle happens in nature, and it happens faster in aquaria. Ideally what you need is a large oxic area at the top of the sand bed, with a smaller suboxic and anoxic layers at the bottom. The problem is that you have very little, if any, control over the "size" of these areas. Ive just syphoned it twoce in the last week. You'd think that would pull out all the crap. Have you always siphoned so regularly? If you haven't always, then it could potentially have caused problems. There is no reason po4 would store in the sandbed and not the rock, Its the same material. Pretty much the same material, but the key difference is it's in a different place. Gravity is helping rock, where as it hinders sand. You have denitrifying bacteria in the rock, which holds on to as much phosphate as it can, it grows and divides, so it takes up more room, eventually there is not enough room in the rock for all these bacteria and they are pushed out of the rock (called bacterial turgor). This is the rock cooking process, it happens in EVERY tank constantly. So the bacteria and it's waste along with phosphate stored within it, are pushed out of the rock, and fall to the bottom of the tank via gravity. If there is no sand there, it can be siphoned, or alternatively providing a lot of flow can keep it suspended in the water so that the skimmer can remove it. If there is sand there, well it just gets trapped there, unless the sand is vacuumed regularly. Of course this same process happens in the sand itself, but gravity being gravity means that it just gets trapped there until the sand is full, or another a trigger for the release cycle occurs. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine seb Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 what is the temp of your tank cracker? just curious because i have only started getting it since summer kicked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 26.5 to 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warick hearn Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well I had red slime covering 90% of my rocks...started adding vodka to the tank.... added more waterflow (seio streems) and a better skimmer(berlin) and 8 weeks later no algie at all ANYWHERE!!!!!I think a combination of all three helped to squash the algie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Funny I had cyno covering 95% of my 90L tank choking everything i added about 150g of phosphate remover & its all gone as of yesterday, took about 10 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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